Releaselog

Sceners Threaten to Destroy BitTorrent, “One Step at a Time”

SuperTorrents recently fell victim to an attack by alleged ‘Scene’ members who revealed the site owner’s identity. Further action was promised against torrent sites and today another tracker admin’s life has been turned upside down. The attacker’s message: “Destroying The P2P’s, One Step at a Time”

At the end of last year Torrentfreak reported on the unfortunate fate of Ersan, the administrator of SuperTorrents. He suffered multiple security breaches which revealed his identity along with the loss of $2000 in donations. Scene notices (text files carrying news/other info) carried lots of the gory details, with one ending in a threat: “cellkill is next”.

It seems that “cellkill” - the administrator of Feedthe.net (also known as FTN) has become the group’s latest BitTorrent victim, exactly as promised. In yet another notice with the header “Destroying The P2Ps, One Step at a Time”, part of the justification for the attack reads:

Many have heard of him, but have never spoke to him, for a p2per word of him has come far as the scene. [real name removed], the owner of another torrent site called FeedThe.Net (FTN). His Torrent site steals thousands after thousands of releases from the scene, and then he has the nerve to go and say to other P2P’s STOP STEALING RELEASES FROM US?!??!? ILL BAN YO ASS! But wait, how is this even possible??
[real name removed] isn’t on the “Staff” page yet he’s still banning people, posting news and running the entire site. Mr. [removed], did you really think you were gonna leave without us giving you a goodbye present? Guess again ;-)”

The grim reality becomes clear as detail after detail of this admin’s personal life is revealed. His real name, date of birth, place of residence, personal email addresses, home ISP and IP address, places of education, friends, family - it’s quite a grim read. The claim that CELLKiLL is currently studying ‘Computer Security’ must pile on the embarrassment in spades. Family and friends who have also had their identities revealed can’t be too pleased that their FaceBook profiles are now public information.

Does this action against FTN signal the end of this ‘war’ on BitTorrent or will the MPAA and RIAA be rubbing their hands with delight on a regular basis? At least one other admin has been threatened for helping the admin of SuperTorrents after the original attack but there aren’t any more specifics at the moment.

The attackers left with this message: “We have yet again erased another torrent admin from existence. Other Groups, do your part to make the scene what it was in the beginning. Secure.”

My comment on the issue is that these persons who are participating in these acts of degradation represent only a small, arrogant minority of the scene. Within the scene comes some of the most talented hacking/cracking skills available, and these powers can either be used responsibly, or irresponsibly. I’m not to sure if the ’sceners’ here will actually accomplish their goal of making the scene more secure. The biggest threat to the scene is laws and legislation, police task forces and anti-piracy organizations who attempt to infiltrate and bust them. Second from this would be people who give out IPs and locations to the warez FTPs and sites that the scene groups upload to. Therefore, it does not make sense to find private torrent site admins and then give out their personal information. The P2P portion of the internet is more valuable to the scene then they think it to be, by providing a larger source for pre-airs, screeners, and other goodies. Until the anti-p2p pro ignorance attitude stops coming from some scene members, this ugly and unnecessary war shall be waged for long to come.

source: enigmax, torrentfreak | ftnobar-cellkill.1.rar

Comments (276)

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  1. Never
    January 8th, 2008 | 02:12

    “, do your part to make the scene what it was in the beginning. Secure.”

    Isn’t the point making things “unsecure” ?

  2. Totalbalance
    January 8th, 2008 | 02:15

    I have no problem believing these are “sceen” attacks for a min. Been there and seen it before in other ways. When IRC channel back on DALnet you would see groups like #warez_ftp and #warez-ftp do what ever they could to shut down each others channels. I left the sceen along time ago when kazaa first came out because it brought it all to the masses. But what they are doing now is going too far. Its not just the admins they are messing with by exposing them its their famlies as well. People who have a “hobby” that is theft and against the law should be really careful who they piss of because not all p2p are just little script kiddies and a few of them are gonna fight back. SOOOOO glad I live in usenet and just poke my head out everynow and then.

  3. blacKdeath
    January 8th, 2008 | 02:17

    In no way did I mean that SecretSquirrel had syphoned funds from isohunt, by saying ‘asking for donations’ I meant exactly what you’ve said above, that he made it very obvious what the donations were for and was very open about the matter.

    My opinion of the matter is SS has done a lot of excellent work at IH and elsewhere. I believe the donations he recieved were well deserved and well spent too :p.

    Apologies for anyone misguided by my vague statements.

  4. sc3nemya$$
    January 8th, 2008 | 02:17

    What a bunch of pr1cks these so-called “scene” jerks are. We got news for you pricks, 99% of downloaders DO NOT GIVE A RATS A$$ about “scene” and by doing $hit like this you’re just making yourself look like a bunch of jerk nerds with no life and probably no girlfriends. Grow t.f. up pr1cks. If you don’t like it go find something more useful to do with your lives instead of trying to ruin others who are often providing a free service to many more people than you losers have done.

  5. welitis
    January 8th, 2008 | 02:20

    Those Axs whipes! They should go to hell and live there forever!

  6. DryKid
    January 8th, 2008 | 02:21

    #14

    “sorry. but what is p2p”

    Are you on the right website?

  7. Mike
    January 8th, 2008 | 02:24

    If these scene groups really wanted to be secure, and not draw attention to themselves, they wouldn’t put out the childish and pointless .nfo’s and wouldn’t be so damn eager to put their “scene name” all over everything.

  8. !
    January 8th, 2008 | 02:24

    LONG LIVE TPB YOU FOCKERS WILL NEVER STOP THE PIRATE BAY, even though i rarely use the pirate bay do to very slow speeds of their masesses! Loooooooooooooooooool

  9. sc3nemya$$
    January 8th, 2008 | 02:25

    Oh and please stop with the bs “our release” here’s another reality bite: YOU didn’t write the software. You didn’t make the movie. You didn’t write the game. Cracks and copies being made available are NOT the same as “hey look i made this great movie!” or “I’m proud to present Terminator 2 which was ALL my own work!” Get over yourselves. Cracks and copies are appreciated but hell no way majority who see it don’t kiss the person who “released” it foot.

  10. NSH
    January 8th, 2008 | 02:32

    After reading all this I believe some of the main points are:
    1) Profiting from Scene is BAD, taking down those who profit is fine in my opinion.

    2) Sharing is not bad, but should be done in a way so that the source scener/grp is not punished for it by the FBI, RIAA, MPAA etc.

    3) Seems like it was only a small group of people who attacked the admin, if it wern’t, why had it not been done earlier?

    The “scene” doesn’t want people who are a risk for them (BT users and basically other noobs who ask what a .TAR file is). Also, for those of you complaining about not being able to get into topsites, irc, and other ftp sites… you don’t deserve to be in. Your not tryin hard enough :), the “scene” is unsecure enough to where any joe schmoe can pay for axx.

    my2cntz

  11. NSH
    January 8th, 2008 | 02:41

    @211
    True they didn’t “MAKE” the app or tv show, BUT they did bring it to you and took a risk in that so that you could have THEIR Quality, instead of some sh!tty crack that doesn’t work. If these people didn’t exist, you would pretty much have CRAP releases all around.
    So let them dictate what they want to happen with the stuff they bring you. If you can’t wrap you head around what I’m saying, don’t worry.
    Let me just put it this way.. those apps they didn’t make, wouldn’t work without the crackz they DO make. :) you get that?

  12. Wibble
    January 8th, 2008 | 02:45

    Quote from NHS.

    “1) Profiting from Scene is BAD, taking down those who profit is fine in my opinion.”

    What about when it’s the scene themselves who profit? Are you saying that it’s ok for them to make money on copyrighted material that doesn’t belong to them?.. and as most of the dodgy market copies actually originate from the scene, is it ok for them to make a profit that way?.. what about the profit they make from having to buy your way into the scene, money or releses (which again leads to more profit).

    Making profit from other peoples work (real creativity not “cracks or hacks”) is sh*tty and the scene has been making profit for far longer and has more connection to organised crime than p2p (who basically give it away for free.. i.e SHARING) ever will.

    As far as I’m concerned the scene is a far less worthy or desirable institution than P2P.. isn’t not even is if they “give us” (lol) stuff that we wouldn’t get access to sooner or later anyway.

    The scene now is unneccessary, and quite frankly unwanted by the majority of P2P.

  13. arno
    January 8th, 2008 | 02:58

    The ‘clan’ that downed Torrentfreak are a bunch of english cowards (a trait inbred in that country). It was all over a well known p2p forum. They must feel very content know, shagging their sheep up north.

  14. finish him
    January 8th, 2008 | 03:20

    “The scene now is unneccessary, and quite frankly unwanted by the majority of P2P.”
    LOL

    Oh yeah, having to rely on p2p users actually getting to work, how great that would be!!

    It’s true we’re so sick of seeing every tv show released for free the same day they were broadcasted on at least 3 different formats (SD,HRHD,720p), with strict standards on quality to ensure consistency, how ennoying this is..

    And don’t let me start on movie screeners and 0day cracks, what a major pain…

    MORON

  15. Wibble
    January 8th, 2008 | 03:33

    Hardly….

    If the scene didn’t do it, you can bet your @ss P2P would pick it up, as for quality., I’ve seen plenty of p2p stuff with equal quality.. and with widescale kudos to be earned there’d be a hell of a lot more, capping (for example) is hardly the most complicated thing in the world… and there are certainly crackers available. (lol, Bioshock)

    Scene is convenient because they do the work, but if they disapeared, all we’d miss is their biitchin’.

  16. 4FuK-S8kZ
    January 8th, 2008 | 03:40

    4FuK-S8kZ, All this sh1t about who stole from who and who release first is bu11sh1t!!! “The scene” is behaving like the MPAA. Major Pile of Arogant A55h0les - FuK the scene!!
    You cannot control the internet…

  17. Rekrul
    January 8th, 2008 | 03:44

    This sort of crap has been going on since the days of the C64. Here’s a thought; Why not omit the NFO and delete the part of the filename that carries the group’s name when the release is spread to P2P? P2P gets the file and nobody knows what group is responsible. Or create a fake group name that’s only used when the release is leaked to the P2P networks.

    Of course all the groups are too full of themselves to ever release anything without their name on it, because then how would all the lamers of the world know how superior they are?

  18. mehbleh
    January 8th, 2008 | 03:45

    The way in which they chose to punish this guy seems somewhat counter productive. If anything can be learned from action taken by organisations such as the RIAA or MPAA, its that it simply doesn’t work. Within two weeks ten sites… ten greedy, money hungry admins will have replaced this guy. Increasing the demand for new torrents and increasing the temptation for ‘scensters’ to make a little extra kudos, or even money, by leaking scene releases. Not to mention the fact they will all start to get nervous, wondering who is next to be ousted as a leek. Next thing you know everyone’s watching everyone, no one is sharing , BAM! ‘the scene’ is dead on its arse, rotten from the inside out.

    MPAA 1 – 0 The People

  19. NSH
    January 8th, 2008 | 03:54

    Wibble: LOL, If the “scene” didn’t exist it would take you a very LONG time to get a low quality copy of a show. Trust me, all these rls’s come from them, if the “scene” were to shutdown you would’nt get 1/100th of the crap your getting now. :)

    And as far as them profiting from ftp leech slots, like I said it is wrong, and those people are mostlikely not the real sceners. Sceners actually LOSE money, to pay for DVD SCR, and SOMETIMES dedicated servers. First get an idea of things work, then speaks plz. If you still don’t understand, then just don’t worry. kthnxbye :)

  20. Not Stupid
    January 8th, 2008 | 03:56

    Wibble, you are so talented to nit picking 1 (one) sentence out of a whole paragraph to prove people wrong and pointing out YOUR point of view and how misguided OUR opinion’s our.

    Don’t guide us in YOUR way of thinking. I really do not want to be in your shoes right about now talking about the scene the way you are now. Remember, you are on Rlslog… The site that posts releases FROM the scene.

    My end of this discussion on this topic is closed. Troll someone else Wibble. And yes, I did call YOU (Wibble) a troll. Not me or anyone else. Try to use your new founded jedi psychology on someone else.

    Stick a fork in me, I’m done.

  21. DaPhuQ
    January 8th, 2008 | 04:07

    i think sceners are fed up when…dumbasses like axxo takes their releases..an then take the credit…i hope he’s next :-)

  22. Wibble
    January 8th, 2008 | 04:09

    NHS..

    yep as I’ve said, we can forget all about quick releases (for a certain amount of time anyway, til p2p caught up.. which I’m pretty certain it would.)

    Although I can’t agree that quality would suffer, yes, there would be those who couldn’t do it properly but would try anyway.. but also there would be those who would be “legends” and would be known for quality, so it would probably level itself out… Oday stuff and screeners would probably (for the most part) disappear, but we’d get them occasionally which would make them that much more special, as opposed to now where the majority of “us” seem to expect, nay, demand them. :O.. and we’d most certainly get used to not getting things early.. which would also (probably) have a positive knock on effect for the sales…

    @Stupid…

    Stick a fork in you I WOULD.

  23. cabose369
    January 8th, 2008 | 04:56

    Isn’t that blackmailing?? Blackmailing is a criminal offense. LOL!

  24. InvisibleMan
    January 8th, 2008 | 04:58

    It was a foolish move to attack the p2p site admins. If could trigger counter attacks, that will compromise the security of the “scene” This was clearly the action of people with the childish mindset of valdals.

  25. stunz
    January 8th, 2008 | 05:04

    I completely agree with what the sceners are doing.
    Bittorrent and P2P is all derived from the scene. Its like the Child.

    The Child is getting the Father uncovered.

    The scene is TRYING to stay Unnoticed. Put it this way.
    If you were to take P2P and Bittorrent away, how would the average home user get there music and movies? They cant use IRC, Dont know wtf Usenet is, definatly dont have private sites. It just wont happen. Piracy would drop %70. RIAA/MPAA would back down, not completely, but slightly. Music/Cinema sales would increase. Everything would go back to how it was 10 years ago.

    Quite Frankly, i would LOVE it if Torrent/P2P died. Would make my job (PC TECH) Alot easier, and alot less virus recoveries :D

  26. TRON
    January 8th, 2008 | 05:11

    I could give two poops about all this drama. P2P, a scene group, the Lord above, just release There Will Be Blood, Juno, We Own the Night, Beowulf, Michael Clayton that’s not missing four minutes and full-screen, any decent movie to fulfill my addictive nature for a night. TRON out.

  27. Hellyeahscrewtorrents
    January 8th, 2008 | 05:24

    ***K Torrents!!! Hell yeah - FTP 4 Life!!! Scene 4 Life!! Screw these nubs!

  28. dan
    January 8th, 2008 | 05:30

    It is really not that hard now-a-days to backtrack an e-mail or even a site. For instance one secret that not too many people know about is that you can spoof your headers, but you cannot spoof the nntp watermark that each computer places on e-mails and file transfers. with a few programs and simple time and effort, it is not that hard to back track to the site that hosts the page or even the server that your e-mail was sent from.

    Once you have that info that is 99.9% of it as a few programs (that shall not be named) can trace what account sent what by just inputting the info a whosis search returns to you, thus giving you the real name and address of the person that owns the account or webpage where the traffic came from. Anyone that reads 2600 magazine already knows and has this information, not to mention should already know what programs I am talking about.

    That being said, unless they are moving child porn; they should be left alone as it is very funny for one group that steals a screener to then complain that another group is making it available to the public. back in the day this was called ‘being a courier from top sites to distrib sites’ now I guess the people that are “seeding” the screeners are just too ignorant to understand that the torrent people are helping them.

    No skin off the torrent people’s nose as what the sceeners really do not understand is that while it is easy for them to “out” the owners of the torrent sites, it is just as easy for the owners of the torrent sites to backtrack the sceeners and out them.

    What goes around comes around.

  29. Sunspot420
    January 8th, 2008 | 05:34

    A RAT IS A RAT IS A RAT IS A RAT

  30. Ted
    January 8th, 2008 | 06:37

    IMHO this is BS. if not then the tards behind it should be fried. -sigh-

    Simple folks. Without one, the other dies.

    I am and will always be grateful for the sceners. For without them, this ‘leech’ could not live.
    -cheers-

  31. ooo666
    January 8th, 2008 | 07:09

    Hmm….i dont understand these people…
    Long live the piracy and long live freedom of internet (some :))

  32. zer0drew
    January 8th, 2008 | 09:43

    You’re all newbs, the same type of newbs who were paying for Dial-up and Compuserv Cause’ U didn’t know how to use BBSes and FreeNET

  33. Dad Burn
    January 8th, 2008 | 10:27

    This thread here really shows the problem. So few people know much less care avout where w…z product comes, most aren’r t that new they just have no interest other than leeching. That is why so few in this thread can appreciate that many of the complaints from peeps in the scene are valid.

    I come into a board like this where there is always a sub-text of gimme gimme from a sizwable chunk of the posts, yet those same people get all horrified that the people who devote hours of unpaid highly skilled labour aren’t all peace and love about it.

    Even worse is the “what’s the big deal, people who steal complaining about people who steal?” line from the other ignoranises.

    If you believe using w…z is stealing yet you still use it, what does that say about you ?

    Try using your imagination and work out why it is that smart young puta-heads often with well paid gigs in the industry would risk everything to be dirst to beat the protection on a piece of software, and if it is really likely they would do that out of a sense of social responsibility to a mob of spoiled brats who happily blow $500 on a new graphic card with a built in obsolescence that will make it useless in 6 months, but who won’t spend $30 on a good game.

  34. FiXXeD
    January 8th, 2008 | 10:59

    Please bow your heads for a short prayer….

    Our leeching tho art from cyber,
    Download be thy name.
    Thy screeners come,
    and thy dl’s be done,
    On torrents as it is in Scene.
    Give us this day our daily release
    And forgive us our leeching
    As we forgive those noobs who leech against us
    And lead us not into Scene wars
    And deliver us from Trojans
    For thine is the Internet, the web, and the cyber
    For ever and ever

    Amen…

  35. dfhfdh
    January 8th, 2008 | 12:07

    the issue is that too many people have access in the scene, and take rlses straight to p2p. this makes it easier for the law to link people and locations and arrest them. siteops won’t make the moves necessary to keep things secure so now we see the result. the problem is just 0sec though, if people could be satisfied with 0day then there’s no problem.

  36. The_Professional_Hooker
    January 8th, 2008 | 14:21

    The Scene the scene the scene - Its supposed to be a free movement just like the p2p movement that are now complementing each other. I have no respect for the person from the scene who promptly did this as he brings down other sceners and users a long with it. It is also very degrading and unfair in return for what they consider ’stealing’ from them ultimately a hypocritical action. I can understand the frustration but the action was extreme and his skill exhausted for the wrong purpose. Just because you’re in the scene doesn’t mean you get let your head get too big and start acting draconian to the underling internet bodies.

    Long live and PROSPER the SCENE and P2P.

  37. The_Professional_Hooker
    January 8th, 2008 | 14:25

    In addition the user who had the problem with the p2p affiliate should have taken the matter with them. No one should have their private details broadcasted to the public as such.

  38. lostart
    January 8th, 2008 | 14:56

    Its sad to see how the people in the scene are used. They have no reasoning for the actions they are doing. Its stealing, plain and simple.

    If they were to share it among the contriputors and friends, they could do just that. Nothing is stopping them for deleting themselves from topsites and to use own internal one to share the wealth. But they like the attention, which they get from the nfo’s.

    It might be said, that the most efforts are done one the cracking sections of the scene ( 0day, applications and games ). I have always wondered, why do some talented people waste their time on stealing and doing work, which someone will 100% profit from. The risk of getting nerdish pride of being known as ubercracker cannot be explained, considering the danger of getting jail and being marked in the industry as a thief ?

    I find it very interesting, that almost all p2p and scene talk involves the attitude as profiting being a “bad thing”. Its like some utopia they are trying to sell; “we cracked this and we didnt profit at all. Now we ask some respect and say you not to profit aswell.” But maybe they dont understand that, when they are stealing from some artist and sharing the art for free, the artist actually have to do something for a living, not like the majority of the “sceners” who probably got their mom cooking for them.

    And what comes to trendy anti-corporation philosophy, they are feeding the same people in a different institution. All these corporations, who benefit from the piracy. And its the ordinary people who suffer in the long run.

  39. YeahRight
    January 8th, 2008 | 15:00

    There is no honor among thieves…

  40. Robert
    January 8th, 2008 | 15:20

    Its easy .
    Scene releases are not made for the general public.They are made for the competing members in the different groups.

    The fact that torrent uploaders are members on paytoleech sites and pay huge ammounts for their 0 day access does not mean that the Groups endorse them.

    the pay-to-leech sites most of the torrent uploaders use to get their stuff are also frowned upon by the Scene .

    The scene has always been internal , until torrents arrived.

    And sry Mr.admin . Your point about Torrents gaining the sceners are just wrong . No real scene group get stuff from p2p people anyways . Thats why the p2p groups are banned in the scene ,mate ..

  41. finish_him
    January 8th, 2008 | 15:44

    @ wibble: i see your point but i honestly think it’s a bit naïve…

    Take movies for example, I need to use subtitles a lot (for me, girlfriend, parents…) and thanks to scene releases, everybody has a common denominator to work with, and it facilitates things A LOT.

    Can’t imagine it working with “p2p releasers” when i see all these private torrents site, which all try to have exclusive stuff, you’d get dozens releases of same movie, with almost no seeders (it already happens today, but on a very small scale)
    Who wants to spend hours reading comments on forums, just to see if it’s the right release to take, honestly?

    With scene standards, you automatically know it’s good =)

    I couldn’t care less if all these sceners want to call themselves god or geniuses in their nfo, all i know is that they gave me a fantastic quality dvdscreener of 300 (just an example lol), and i thank them for that.

    On a side note, one thing that makes me sick is all these private torrent trackers that exist thnaks to users donations.
    When you see that some sites manage to get like 1200€ per month, it’s just sad.
    Give this money to charity or to real useful projects, not warez sites and find and a better way to access those files, for God’s sake!!

  42. lostart
    January 8th, 2008 | 15:46

    “Scene releases are not made for the general public.They are made for the competing members in the different groups.”

    But they are. If this would be the case, the scene wouldnt be what it is today.

    “The fact that torrent uploaders are members on paytoleech sites and pay huge ammounts for their 0 day access does not mean that the Groups endorse them.”

    Groups doesnt endorse them, but there have been several cases where the same groups do the same profiting as you said about paytoleech sites.

    “The scene has always been internal , until torrents arrived.”

    It has not been internal. THG in early 90s had boards, which were profiting. Everyone could pay they access on these boards. Razor were selling cds and shipping them into your address. There are several other cases like these.

    Your statements about nostalgic holy scene in the “early” days just doesnt stand daylight.

    Robert, its different thing to say something, than actually doing it.

  43. cristi
    January 8th, 2008 | 16:13

    well, in what i know the scene is NOT for public, is just internal, they (back n the day) shared rlses only betwen them, the scene groups, the REAL scene groups… and now they are trying to that once again, for the ol’ times sake…
    but then what are we going to do… where do we get movies, music, games, for freee… I think it’s all about the respect, the scene doesn’t get the deserved respect, so… propz to the all scene groups and respect!!!

  44. dan
    January 8th, 2008 | 16:28

    dad Burn, I see that you are here, so what needs to be asked is..What does it say about YOU? You get on your hypocritical high horse and decry almost everyone on the board that does not agree with you on the sceener and then admit that you “visit” other boards like this. Now does anyone with two brain cells to rub and make a spark honestly think that you have not “ehem…borrowed” a file or two? Considering the odds are that you have, your whining post is nothing more then being two faced as you are complaining about one issue while obviously doing the same thing yourself.

    It is obvious that the sceeners and the hackErs do this for fame and nothing more, else why is it so important for them to be first to provide a screener or a 0-sec game/program? Or better yet, why allow it to be placed anywhere other then a private board? I mean y God man, there are newsgroups and BBoards and top sites and a host of others that carry these things so decrying that this is supposedly “secure” is the ultimate oxymoron.

    get over yourself and get off your high horse/soapbox as you do the exact same thing that the rest of us here do, only we admit it while you try and fluff it off or deny it.

    finally, for your snide remark about paying $30, tell you what einstein, you find me London after Midnight in ANY form and I will gladly pay you $300 for that movie. Until then I will keep looking and if I ever see it in a torrent format or any other format, I am going to snatch it no matter if you approve or not!

  45. King
    January 8th, 2008 | 16:43

    re: Robert

    “The scene has always been internal , until torrents arrived.”

    Thats a load of CROCK. Prior to torrents, scene releases were prevalent on public BBS, then via http://warez, IRC, FTP announcers and xdcc bots, mule to torrent.

    Torrents are just a very reliable way of transferring packets and connecting shares. What makes Torrents such a great success is there is no longer the requirement for a host/central sharer and the resources to get the same effect can be met much easier with the assistance of the connecting nodes (as you understand).

    My final say on the matter, is that its a childish action taken by the person and damaging to the scene’s underground respectable status that is may have. With that sort of attitude why don’t they join the police force [hold] perhaps not if they get a jail sentance for: Breaking federal law by breaching privacy & security, stalking, cracking, and unlawfully releasing the information to the public. That is a hefty crime that would weigh heavy on their shoulders if prosecuted against and the many parties now affected by it.

  46. Fizzycakes
    January 8th, 2008 | 16:43

    Idiots, way more people use P2P the Usenet anyway, but still, there’s absolutely no way they could actually take down P2P, it’s SO much bigger than ‘the scene’. The only way they could take P2P down is by stopping their releases.

  47. Wibble
    January 8th, 2008 | 16:54

    @ finish_him..

    Up to a point I can’t agrue with you.. but there is a huge difference between “teh scene” who issue copyrighted material and the groups who do stuff like fansubs.. they aren’t really the same thing.. if the top pirate scene groups disappeared then most of the stuff would still be available, probably after the fact..but fansub groups etc.. wouldn’t be affected, different market and different (if any) risks, it would also have the knock on effects for sales (which, honestly, I couldn’t care less about) and ,almost certainly, “the greedy little biitch” syndrome that has plagued users of the internet since this stuff began to be available.. In general I think it would help net society as a whole tremendously if we could begin to foster a community that was far less greedy, demanding and lame as it is.

    As for standards.. if it was all we had access to then soon P2P would have their own standards and releasers of quality would be recognised…( especially with all the n00bs shouting “this sux0rs!!one11one!1!”

    Personally I’d like to see cut backs in the amount of brand new stuff hitting the net, let the real creator’s (and by this I mean don’t mean the companies who market and publish) gather in a bit of money for their efforts before we start to pounce all over it, and give us all a chance to share our back catalogues with each other, it would definately cut down on the screaming, childish, greedy, self-centered behavour of the idiots who have grown up online and have come to believe that free new stuff is their god given right.

    As for “teh scene” making any money at all.. in my mind that IS criminal.. they steal, repackage and SELL, THAT SUCKS!!.. if the creator’s don’t make anything, why the fux should those sh1theads?

    If we aren’t willing to pay those who deserve it, then those who don’t, shouldn’t be cashing in either.

  48. fat nigs
    January 8th, 2008 | 17:12

    1 - THE REAL SCENE DOES NOT EVER USE ANYTHING FROM P2P, ONLY NEW FAKE GROUPS AND IMITATORS DO
    2 - THEY ARE ALREADY PWNING P2P WITH MASS VIRUS DISTRIBUTION
    3 - YOU WILL SOON BE DDOSED LOL

  49. meh
    January 8th, 2008 | 17:33

    There’s just no honour amongst thieves any more. :-(

  50. Wibble
    January 8th, 2008 | 19:05

    I’d propose a 2 year copyright grace…

    Anything being released having a 2 year shelf life and being banned from P2P with fines as penalties to the offending dl’ers or ul’ers, with jail time being reserved for those who it is proven have actually profitted from the products release.. this would include pirate scene and (unfortuantely) torrent site admins who profit from donations to their site… after 2 years then the copyright lapses and falls into public domain and we could do what the fux we wanted with it.. this would apply to individual formats (Dvd, bluray, etc, ad infinitum) and software build numbers although not patch versions..let’s face it, if you haven’t bought it within two years.. you’re not going to and people won’t simply wait two years to get it for free.

    This would have the advantage of spurring progress on new products as the race to profit within the 2 year window would be on.. and would also do a lot to bring consummrs back in to the fold, so to speak.. it pretty evident that big business is rapidly becoming the main demon in society and that they are pretty much vilified by all in sundry.

    The only exemption to the two year rule would be TV shows.. they air them for free, so by the very fact of giving them away in the first place they would be giving up their rights to protection, HOWEVER.. DVD’s of said programmes WOULD fall under said protection period.

    Big business have to realise that their time of making profit infinately from copyrights that don’t lapse is OVER and that unless they want to be left with their very way of life crumbling around their greedy little necks that a NEW FAIR business model has to arise. Given a fairer business model their profit would exponentially rise and stupid “scene and P2P wars” would be a thing of the past, because the scene would all be in jail for breaching JUSTIFIABLE copyrighting laws.

  51. Anonymouzor
    January 8th, 2008 | 19:35

    @ 250 LMFAO

  52. costa200
    January 8th, 2008 | 19:59

    “The scene has always been internal , until torrents arrived.”

    Noobish thing to say… I’ve been using stuf from the scene even before there was a widespread of the internet, much less torrents.

  53. Robert
    January 8th, 2008 | 21:40

    “The scene has always been internal , until torrents arrived.”

    Scene releases has been used by very few people until torrenting arrived , because the ease of torrenting made everyone get hold of them.

    The proper groups who do it for the credentials,are not into being famous in the general public. They want respect from their peers for their work ,not money or general fame . I know this is hard for many people to grasp , but thats just how it is .

    The sceners have been getting more aggressive in recent years ,because their releases can be downloaded by everybody , and not just nerds around the world on ftps and on irc…

    That is why they are getting upset,cause the release was never meant for “everybody” . Most honourable sceners buy their favourite apps\movies\games because they also want to support the developers..

    These days when “everyone” can get the releases,it also brings alot of attention to the original sceners,and that is something they dont want..

    I guess this site aswell is promoting scene releases to everyone , and therefore prolly in the line of fire for serious attacks in the future.

    An easy way to solve the problem would be that torrentsites stopped uploading real group releases and only release their own crappy p2p releases , but hey .. torrent admins who have their own forum hoi polloi ,actually think they are contributing to the scene, when they are killing it . What will happen is that the groups will mark more and more releases internal ,and only release them on a few servers .. the torrent admins will loose their donations ,but they will still think it wasnt their fault …

    Strange and greedy world ,we live in .
    Me for one, cant wait for they day groups like reloaded,Air , rare and the rest go completely internal.

  54. Rekrul
    January 8th, 2008 | 22:43

    @248 Wibble,

    You say you’d like to see the creators given time to profit from their works before “we” pounce all over it. There’s nothing stopping you from BUYING a copy regardless of whether there’s a free copy on the net.

    @251 Wibble,

    What you’ve described about copyrights being for a limited time is EXACTLY how copyrights were originally intended to work. To give the author a limited amount of time to profit from their work before it passes into the public domain and they lose control of it. I’m not sure I’d make it as low as two years, but it should definitely be a lot less than the current terms which are effectively twice the life of the author. Alternatively, I’d implement a system where a corporation would have to pay a yearly fee for each work they wanted to retain the copyright to. This fee would be high enough that eventually, they would no longer be able to afford to retain the copyrights on everything in their library and they would have to choose which are the most valuable to them. The fee for individuals to retain copyrights would be much lower.

    Of course none of this is ever likely to happen since the media cartels have the various governments in their pocket.

  55. Rekrul
    January 8th, 2008 | 23:03

    I forgot to mention; I’ve never been part of “the scene”, but back in the mid 1980s, I was on several local pirate BBSs. I cracked a few games for the C64 and used a freezer cartridge to memory-dump others, and I uploaded every one of them to all the BBSs I was on. I didn’t do it to be famous (I was fairly well known locally though), but to share what I had. Sure, it was a thrill to have people know my online name, but I liked being able to give people new stuff. In some cases, I would rent games that previously only had screwed up copies (often due to PAL releases not working right on NTSC systems) and upload a good copy for people to enjoy. If possible, I’d put trainers on them, add a simple message at the start and spread it as far as I could. If somebody had a problem with anything I uploaded, I’d try to fix it for them and I was always open to offline trading. I met some good people that way, at least a couple I still stay in touch with.

    I was never all that talented at cracking, but I think I was about the only person in this area that did any at all, at least publically. Most everyone else just uploaded whatever games they got by trading with others. I didn’t look down on anyone else or feel I should withhold the games I’d cracked. I wanted others to enjoy them.

    Of course in those days, there wasn’t a huge push to bust small-time pirates like there is now, so uploading to a BBS was pretty safe.

  56. Wibble
    January 8th, 2008 | 23:40

    @ Rekul..

    “You say you’d like to see the creators given time to profit from their works before “we” pounce all over it. There’s nothing stopping you from BUYING a copy regardless of whether there’s a free copy on the net.”

    Yep, quite right, and I wouldn’t wish for products to be banned from the market place after their 2 year protection, but they, in the end, will be copied anyways, so a manditory protective measure is neccessary, if people want to buy them after that period, fine, not a problem.

    As for the rest of your post, I can’t disagree.. but preferably I’d like to see companies UNABLE to BUY copyrights, and for all ip to stay with the originator, with it being LICENCED from them and them recieving the vast bulk of the revenue.

  57. costa200
    January 9th, 2008 | 00:01

    “Most honourable sceners buy their favourite apps\movies\games because they also want to support the developers..”

    What a load of bull…

  58. the problem is this:
    January 9th, 2008 | 01:12

    The problem is THERE ARE A LOT OF PRIVATE TRACKERS, the scene can’t stop them all. Other problem is a lot of people have access to topsites - thank God!

  59. Robert
    January 9th, 2008 | 02:05

    That is why apps like Preee v3.00 is being worked on actively these days within the scene itself . With that app you avoid the need for topsites and couriers . Everything can be done easily by the hackers themselves within the app ,and no need for any other people outside the community to have access . The “scene” will never stop filesharing via bitorrent,but the “scene releases” available on bittorrent might,and probably will become smaller in the future.

    I don´t know anything :) time will tell :)

  60. A Idea
    January 9th, 2008 | 02:08

    Real sceners could care less about P2P, only tryhard sceners who can’t grasp the concept of the scene would even bother with going after any P2P sites… ironically they sound more suited as a P2P group than a scene group…

  61. dan
    January 9th, 2008 | 03:59

    fat nigs, were you BORN an idiot or do you just try real hard? How the bloody he** do you think the “sceeners” get their releases to each other EXCEPT by a P2P ot FTP or Bboard site? I mean jeeze, use your head for something other then a place to place your hat and think about it. If they didnt use some form of P2P (file transfer) then there WOULDN’T BE ANY RELEASE GROUPS AS THEY WOULD HAVE NO WAY TO GET IT TO OTHER MEMBERS!!!

    I used to argue that the net would make people smarter, in fat nigs case I have been proven wrong as it clearly makes some people dumber then sh*t

  62. fjjhfgj
    January 9th, 2008 | 12:23

    dan, ftp is not peer to peer, it’s client to server. p2p means connecting to another node in the network, rather than a central server.

  63. Dctr_Who
    January 9th, 2008 | 14:04

    While this isn’t right, they do have a point that the P2P scene is very unsecure, I was getting tons of nice little letters from my ISP for copyright infringement violations. Torrents use to be relatively secure, and “safe”. Now, once you grab a torrent, you have no idea if you will get another one of those letters, and better hope your not on comcast or else you just get shut off. Torrents are also easier to make, so you are getting crap releases. What I don’t understand is why they target private trackers, unless they used the same tactics as the MPAA’s sex slaves and test a tracker to see if they can easily slip in.

    Big thing, is SSL everything you do with torrents, or don’t use them, and the sites need to promote that..

    When compared to Usenet, Torrents suck, however, the last thing we need is a flood of usenet usage since most of the world looks at you weird when you say Usenet, you say torrent and even your 80 year old grandma knows what your up to…

    In the end though, we did take the scenes world from them, before 13 year olds could use a torrent, and it was middle ground for the mostly tech savvy users, it was cool. However, as word spread, we got idiots using BT (and a LOT of them) and the MPAA had a little media fest. So, now this “cool underground scene” that was only seen by few, usually oldschool IRC & Usenet users is now a hot topic in the media.

    So, being exposed to the world, obviously screeners are being handled more securely, and etc. We use to have awesome TC’s or Screeners a week before the movie came out, then about 6 months ago, that completely changed.

    So if you are going to torrent, USE SSL.

  64. The Deviant
    January 9th, 2008 | 18:10

    IRC is all well and good (I used to use it a lot) but speed/time was an issue. People are saying that “IRC is dead”, IRC will never die, it’s still very active, and there are hundreds of file servers out there connected to IRC, just takes awhile to find them.

  65. Glass House
    January 9th, 2008 | 18:31

    People in glass houses shouldn’t throw bricks. If they don’t want things released in public they need to get their own house in order. The public releases come from SOMEWHERE and instead of crying after the horse has bolted if they really want this to stop they need to lock their own gate first. If they can’t even do that then boo fecking hoo. It’s just so much QQ.

    Fact is most of them are insecure guys probably without much of a life who want the attention and “fame” even though the irony is lost that 99.99999% of people who see or use their work don’t know and don’t care who the person is. Come on, who really gives a f*ck about some nickname on a screen? Nobody.

  66. costa200
    January 9th, 2008 | 18:32

    “well, in what i know the scene is NOT for public, is just internal, they (back n the day) shared rlses only betwen them, the scene groups, the REAL scene groups…”

    This never happened. People always got their hands on “scene” stuff and it was never a closed club. The hardship of getting stuf was due to security measures, not exactly because they didn’t want people to get their stuff. Many of those who think that in the old days the “scene” was closed fall into these categories:

    a) Are too young and have imagined an utopian past

    b) Are reaccionary nostalgic of the past people with delusions of greatness who aren’t being able to cope with the moving of the times (AKA “aging is a b*tch for some people”).

    NFOs used to salute people (all people, not scene friends) who got the release, in whatever way that happened. Now many groups act like they are something special and above all others and that is not the original “scene” i got to know as a youngster.

  67. Sam
    January 9th, 2008 | 19:48

    [QUOTE]Samsun

    These ’sceners’ are not too bright. How hypocritical can they get. They steal copyrighted material, make it available to be shared, then moan about people stealing. Hmmm[/QUOTE]

    They DO NOT ‘make it available for everyone’ the release scene and fxp scene are heavily dependant on each other and those involved in it work there arses off for there access.

    What do you do to contribute when you fire up your P2P program? Nothing, other than drawing the attention of the authorities to the releases which puts people who put so much work in at risk.

    So in principle they have a point. P2P takes and takes and gives nothing back other than danger. I do not agree with what they have done however, nobody deserves that.

  68. osamatorrents
    January 10th, 2008 | 08:42

    Step by step, heart to heart, left right left
    We all fall down like toy soldiers
    Bit by bit, torn apart, we never win
    But the battle wages on for toy soldiers….

    SCENE_DELETE.

  69. dan
    January 10th, 2008 | 19:00

    fjjhfgj
    January 9th, 2008 | 12:23
    dan, ftp is not peer to peer, it’s client to server. p2p means connecting to another node in the network, rather than a central server.
    ———————-
    Fjjhfjj puh-leaze, it is still a file transfer no matter if it is done by a server or a p2p or a Bboard or e-mail or ftp (you say pototo and I say potato) makes no diff. The way fatNig was implying is that there were no file transfers from sceeners, that somehow they just appeared on the computers by magic.

    Re-read my answer to him and you will see that I was telling him that no matter what he thinks, there will always be some form of a file transfer as if there were not, the whole sceener groups would die off. Simple as that. but thanks for trying to clarify what I said even though it was obvious what I ment to most who read the statement. ;-)

  70. DaveF420
    January 10th, 2008 | 22:57

    Truth be told this wasn’t an attack to help the scene or to a show of strength by the scene. This was and is a personal attack by a couple of jerks. The scene is nothing anymore without p2p, and p2p is nothing without the scene. If scene guys want their releases private then simply DO NOT RELEASE THEM! Does it get any simpler? Taking ones personal information and putting it out for the public benefits who?Nobody that’s who. This was personal and it will get more personal. CeLLKiLL will get his from Brandon, Brandon will get hit back and so the childish behaviour will continue. I have never paid anything to any private torrent site to download movies,games, or music. I never will. P2P and scene releases are meant to be free. Nobody is suppose to profit in any way, but those private torrent sites do have server bills to pay, isp bills, electricity bills, and so on. For there efforts to keep a torrent site going and looking nice, they should not profit? Use net and top scsne sites all cost too. Why aren’t these being attacked. Usenet has to make profit. This is why it is easy to scene that this was nothing more then a childish personal attack.
    Can’t We All Just Get Along???

  71. leviathon
    January 10th, 2008 | 23:23

    in regards to this matter remember when prince put is new album up for free for all to get hold of that caused ruptions in the money makers world how could he do that they said and not let us make anything from it,all this boils down to money.when a movie is made all involved from the actors to the cleaner of the set gets a shed load of dosh.they make there money, surely when a film as had its day and remains on the shelf of some rental store gathering dust sites like this and many others revive them and start the interest in that movie again,so what are they moaning at hell they cant lose.but this battle thats going on turning scene against p2p and vice versa needs to stop and all need to look around to see who gains from it and it wont be the scene or the p2p it will be someone in the background who has started the ball rolling and is now waiting till the battlefield is gathering its casualties and when there is no threat to them that is when they step in and take whatever it is they want from this.its only like buying a newspaper when you have read it how many of you have give it to someone or left it on a bus or tube you dont write your name on it do you telling the person who picks it up he cannot read it.well thats my version anyway.

  72. Sam
    January 11th, 2008 | 20:07

    Lol this thread is funny.

    ok how many of you actually know what you are talking about? So far i haven’t seen a single person.

    I see a lot of people saying ‘ if you don’t want it shared then don’t release it’ well they do want it shared they just don’t want you to share it publicaly with people who have done nothing to earn what they have downloaded which puts them at risk.

    There are vast communities that share all these releases and none of them use a p2p app.

    At least 50% of scene releases never even end up on p2p and what does is there becuase of leakers who are usually people who have abused there access because the only way they can get what they want is by sharing it on leakers sites. They have no talent and usually have ‘deletion pending’ under there names.

    As i said i don’t condone what they did, but i certainly won’t lost any sleep over it.

  73. Eck0
    January 12th, 2008 | 20:05

    I agree with the sceners. The scene does need to be more secure.

  74. SkunK
    January 17th, 2008 | 17:35

    Sam you are absoolutly correct, all these “P2P” applications just allow people to “Browse” an active catalog of stuff to download like an “Interactive-Free-Wallmart” or provide a “Ticket to a Free Download(AKA Torrent Cues)” if somthing Majoy hits the Net like lets say Windows Vista Ultimate x86 people RACE to see who’s got the best and fastest access to it and get rewarded for being the winner! this would not be for “the Public Pear2Pear” network untill someone places it on a p2p network server or it gets picked up in a P2P-Item-Scan and gets listed in a Search Request, EVERYthing thats BRAND NEW and worth riping and uploading is done by Major RLS groups to put their stamp onit and Properly put on the Net with Their NAME!, it comes Stright from the Offices or the Source who’s closest to the companie or who ever has the master copy/s,….. It seems impossible to stop the scene altho they have come close to breaking a few major rls groups up in the past 18months…..
    Deligated Member of The Infmous “Scene” network!

  75. D023R
    February 15th, 2008 | 04:37

    Im ready to throw down. Lets join and fight them back. These little girls who are scared and hiding behind their computers can come out and try to report me to my face… Lets see what happens. Broken noses all around

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