Microsoft releases Vista SP1 beta
Microsoft Corp. today released the beta of Windows Vista Service Pack 1, a long-awaited reliability and performance update, to an invite-only group of testers. Nick White, a program manager on the Vista team, announced the beta drop in a posting to a company blog. “Today we release the Beta of windows Vista Service Pack 1 (SP1) to a private group of Beta testers via connect.microsoft.com,” White said, referring to Microsoft’s beta test site. Late last month, when Microsoft finally confirmed the beta and partially outlined its schedule, an executive promised that SP1’s first preview would be out before the end of September. Microsoft has invited approximately 12,000 people to test SP1, Mike Nash, the head of Windows client operating system product management, said in a videotaped interview posted on Microsoft’s Channel 9 site.
A later build during the release candidate period will be available to a larger group. Microsoft has said that MSDN and TechNet subscribers will be able to participate in that round of testing. According to another Microsoft-employed blogger, Brandon LeBlanc, users must download and install up to three prerequisites before updating to SP1 with Windows Update. Those prerequisites, said LeBlanc, include updates to the Windows servicing stack, an unspecified update to Windows and an update to BitLocker, the whole-disk encryption tool that’s part of Vista Ultimate and Vista Enterprise. Some or all of the prerequisites will be pushed to users as part of regularly scheduled updates in the months leading up to SP1’s final release, which Microsoft has set for sometime in the first quarter of 2008. That’s finaly a time when many of you may consider installing Windows Vista in my opinion…
Source: PCworld, CW
Comments(95)
first
Martin: BANNED
Any torrent link?
Man.. “Any torrent link?” Read the article..
It says final release in “first quarter of 2008″
I think its gonna release much earlier from a group…
fifa 08 flt released
dont expect links suckers work hard
That picture isn’t part of their advertising is it?
Vista sucks balls anyway.. when I can’t use XP anymore I’m moving to Linux. I’ll NEVER use Vista!
I would never move to Vista. I tried it like 3 times and never liked it. XP or nothing… or maybe Ubuntu or OSX, but certainly no Vista. Never. Period.
guys guys let me touch ur behinds and calm u down.(well, i deserve something for the effort ;D )
anyway, u guys remember WIN ME? it was a 98 with NT feature. no one liked that OS, she has been buried after few months.
if u ask vista is another WIN ME, give it time, she will be disappear.
till now, i dont understand what the fuck microsoft was thinkin, vista is a clumsy OS, despite her advance features.
or
or
its gonne be like xp, first time i got xp it was shit, iv’e returned to 2000, then, right after s1, i tried it again, still didnt like it. the salvation came with sp2, and till now, i’m happy with xp-sp2.
either way, will do(install) what’s good fo us.
i agree with chris. I have been a windows developer since windows 3.1 came out. I am also really happy with XP…
but especially with all this Vista DRM crap (google it!) I will never ever buy Vista. I may ‘obtain’ a copy to develop on, but chances are, I will slowly move to the Macbook Pro, and just run OSX and XP off it.
Too bad microsoft, I always had a good time defending you against Mac and etc… but Vista just has absolutely nothing to brag about.
Microsoft.Windows.Vista.SP1.Update.32Bit.Build.6001.16659.Beta.1.READ.NFO-WinBeta
Microsoft.Windows.Vista.SP1.32Bit.Build.6001.16659.Beta.1.DVD-WinBeta
For those ones who are interested…
Don’t want Vista ? Don’t use it, and stop crying.
Thank you Christian ! Been looking for the rls names
Btw…
Also tried Vista several times…
Always i got some disgusting feeling when using it…
Once I’ve installed, and after 15mins using it, reverted back to XP. XP & Mac OSX, for me it’s combination to go…
But, that’s my personal opinion…
Also for those ones, who owns German edition of Vista:
Microsoft.Windows.Vista.Service.Pack.1.x86.Build.6001.16659.German.DVD-BetaInsiders
And if anyone could provide links to the 16659 beta 1 SP1…
I would be very grateful
too alll vista haters get your self a proper system and then come back and talk shit oh yes stop playing games or using progs whic belong in 98 then u will like vista i hated it from begining too but sens i droped all old progs and games and got new stuff flawless and i m using 64-bit version of it no problems what so ever not one crash in last 2 months i had much more problems wiht xp so stop trashing progres shut upp then go too your linux and then complain how ther is no programs for it
I have the “hacked” version of Vista… which I got from this site (the link to the torrent anyway)…. which works great… updates so far have worked without a hitch. But I’m wondering if this new service pack will give me any problems…. will it find out it’s not a legit version? anyone know if it will be ok? Or will there be a hacked version of this pack?
And btw…. I really like Vista. I’ve had a few minor problems..(a couple programs don’t work well) but nothing major.
It is actually very easy:
If you play games : win xp
If you want to play dx10 games: win wista
If you want to work : linux or mac
Its that simple. for me not using windows on my gaming pc is not an option and using windows on my work laptop is also not an option. Every op sys has its purpose
#16 Dinkin Flicka
There is a possibility for the boot-loader patch (like paradox one or royale.sys) to be blacklisted by M$ but it’s unlikely to happen.
The best way to make your vista genuine is to flash your bios with a modified one which has SLIC table like all OEM computers, then install OEM license and change to OEM license key.
The SP1 until now doesn’t blacklist the other two sollutions (bootloader with bios-emu) so it’s safe to use.
lol@picture.. vista pretty much sucks.. why bother with all the backdoors and the spyware and drm bs.. stay with vista ppl.
Spyware ? what sort of spyware ? Maybe you tell me ?
DRM ? Complete nonsense
I think all of you anti-vista-because-of-drm have read only one totaly biased article about drm in vista.
If you want un-biased opinions – read at least from a few different sources then think about it and then talk.
But oh, I know – it’s Microsoft so – IT HAS TO BE EVIL !
I’m using Vista and used any other OS from MS since beta 1 of Windows 98 (anyone remembers ?).
And I must say that in the crap-ware division there is only one OS – Windows ME.
All other OS’es (NT/2K/XP/2K3/VISTA) are all good and stable.
Hell – even 98 was good and fast (and if you didn’t use NT or NT-based kernels) it was some sort of stable too.
You surely won’t remember when XP was released – I fought with the drivers for 2 or 3 months (not all 2K drivers were good) to make all things work without problems not mentioning software which gave more problems than today’s problems with software in vista.
Sure Vista was not polished well after the release, but today it’s a different OS, and if you tweak it a little here and there, disable some unused services – it will work as fast as XP (and believe me- I can tweak XP’s too).
PrEzi, can you link me to a good guide for tweaking XP ?
Thanks.
#21 da realist
a preety good guide I can recommend is at Tweakhounds
http://tweakhound.com/xp/xptweaks/supertweaks1.htm
There are different levels of tweaks – many are safe, many only used if you are sure you know what you’re doing.
Don’t forget to read the multi-core cpu tweak guide if you’re using a dual-or-multi-core cpu at notebookreviews
http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=60416
PrEzi: thanks for the link about dualcore patches… didnt know that!
#23 me
no problem
I’ve dig it out some time ago and I must say – it really makes a difference in performance and responsiviness of the whole OS.
I also recommend to use Autopatcher for XP for patching up your OS and the build-in performance tweaks.
BTW- someone has a torrent link for the build 16659 SP1 update only (eng) ?
I only did find the whole integrated iso…for now…
hi there,
I don’t like Vista also, but is there an other possibility to use Direct X1o ???
#26 Big-Byte
There IS a chance for you XP gamers…
look here
http://www.fallingleafsystems.com/
PrEzi, you seem to be the only one who likes Vista. So maybe you should be the one that stops crying (comment 11) about how good it is. We would all like Vista if it had any benefits over XP, but at this point it simply doesn’t. Maybe a service pack or two in combination with next gen hardware will change that, but that is the future and I want to play games and download stuff NOW, and not in 2 years. Microsoft is forcing this unfinished OS on us, by stopping XP support, excluding software from other systems and loading it onto ever new computer. Since I don’t want a half-assed OS, I’m looking towards the internet-community to keep XP going until Vista runs like XP after SP2.
Or maybe PrEzi the rlslog-alias of Steve Ballmer…
Damn typos…
#28 QuadrupelQ
Heh, first of all – I would gladly accept the Steve Ballmers salary, or just a part of it or MS revenues
I defend Vista because of experience with earlier OS’es, and if you remember it – I remind you of the XP start, which at the day of release was even more unpolished as vista. That is point one.
Point two is that MS did found (at last!) that they did wrong enforcing a new OS – they are now rolling-up a program for OEM partners to bring back XP.
If you have Business or Ultimate version – you can always roll-back and use XP.
I won’t comment on the ‘play games and download stuff’ much, just for a reason – I don’t want to start flame-wars, as a matter of fact – you can do it perfectly in vista (well, there is even an half-open tcp limit patch for vista).
I do say one thing – Vista has higher requirements for RAM for sure, and starts a little slower, that does not mean it’s worse. It’s bloated and slow when you not tweak it, but as for for example search features it’s way ahead of xp.
And I always turn OFF UAC.
And last – I do recommend XP as a standard for my customers.
Only if they want the brand-new (and tweaked by me) Vista – and AFTER I’m sure they have 1.5+ gigs of ram – I can recommend it.
Vista rocks. I’ve been using it since release. Even apps like Reason run on it fine, which surprised me even. The security is much better than XP and so is performance on multicore machines. My only gripe about Vista is the blank screen when it hibernates and that is all to be honest. Those who think Vista will go away, you’d better get used to it. It’s here to stay for the next 5 years at least. The next version of Windows will be Windows 2010 and that version will take a while to penetrate the userbase.
Oh… and Vista for next-gen hardware?
Today’s hardware is more than enough
I like my Vista. Vista Ultimate 64 bit that is. Everything works little bit better than in XP. Why don’t you ‘I’m sticking with XP since I can’t configure my computer’-people shut up about Vista. You are the same people that moaned about XP when it first arrived and praised Windows 98.
#31 Moshster
I recommend you install newest GPU drivers and install beta 1 of SP1 (or wait untill it’s final, because it’s already adressed in it)
and QuadrupelQ – I do have a dual-boot setup with Vista and Xp… Didn’t run XP for a few months, think I’ll delete it completely
PrEzi… you are officially an uninformed a-hole, your comment “drm? complete nonsense” proves it.. do your brain a favour and research the damned OS.
Vista is the most invasive piece of shit ever to be released for the PC… FFS, why the hell would anyone want an os that scans your drive and disables/ deletes software, tell YOU what your privileges are and generally controls the pc instead of you?
The os is nothing but a window in to your home..
Don’t believe me… read this.
http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.html
…and to everyone else who thinks that the “haters” hate it because it doesn’t work or it’s bloated or it’ll take time to mature (people assume it’s like XP in that regard..WRONG) or because it’s made by Microsoft or any number of other stupid reasons….. it has nothing to do with that!!.IT’S WHAT THE OS DOES THAT IS OF CONCERN, it’s a control measure, nothing less…. either read or shut up.
You just made me laugh man
Your language culture points for an >18 y.o. cry-boy.
And this article – did you ever read other un-biased articles or is this your main-anti-vista-wiki ?
Because I read A LOT of articles from different sources.
Vista Scans your drive and disables/deletes software ? oh man… wake-up or stop taking this shit because you’re not feeling well
As earlier Vesh commented – ‘I’m sticking with XP since I can’t configure my computer’ I would add just one additional line ‘ I can’t and don’t know how to tweak things into my liking’
and remember Dips**t (nice nick !) Stop taking it – because drugs are BAAD !
and for other flamers – read my #30 comment (and use civilised language
)
I don’t blindly defend vista – it has adventages and disadventages.
It’s the future – you want or not. It will grow old and eventually die, as the new OS – windows seven will come out into the light.
Then you’ll probably flame Windows Seven the same as Vista today. (remember ‘Whistler’ vs 2K flame-wars ?)
I’m considering to change to Vista sometime in mid-2008. Hopefully, with SP1, it will see a big improvement.
I’m a staunch XP Pro user. I tried Vista once and hated it.
But PrEzi is owning the Vista haters.
Also nice links on XP, thanks.
#39 Lol_gadaffi
Heh, you know what my first response to the RTM Vista was ?
YUCK ! Take it off my PC ! (lucky I had a dual-boot setup then).
But after here-and-there tweaks…
After 3 or 4 days as I grew up to it…
After sleepless nights and some sort of headache pills -
I kinda liked it and it performs better and better
The future is bright for Vista, and everything need a little polishing
I pity that MS did not postpone the release of Vista, it should be oficially released now, not at the end of 2006(Business)/in February(all other versions).
I think that many vista-haters come from the PC-vendors which bundle too much of crapware with a brand-new computer.
I saw Vista-PCs with so much crap installed that they’ve slowed to a crawl and we should blame OEM-vendors for it.
HA HA HA! The noobs don’t know how to run Vista! How pathetic! These are the same guys who think that compressing movies is a good think! Damn noobs!
BTW: About cracked Vista – Clony Freeze timer crack doesn’t work anymore with the latest updates so the best think to do is to get the bios emulator OEM activation crack! The vista will become in no time activated and 100% genuine!
I used xp the first day it came out and totally liked it, never looked back. EVER.
Its my favorite OS ever since and I really wouldn’t want to change to anything else than that: never touch a running system, that’s my motto. DX 10 is a joke anyway.
When I tried out Vista I run into a bug that wouldn’t allow me to rename files and folders… haha what a joke.
I’m really pissed at the fact that Vista is almost the only option right now if you’re buying a laptop. You may downgrade for sure, but it’s a hassle. Plus I hate spending money on an OS I don’t really wanna own.
NoiZ try to use punctuation, no one bothers to read ur message like that.
On a related note, Windows Vista Service Pack 1 even tries to hide the Ultimate Extras shame by removing much of the information in the Control Panel applet. This dramatic change to the wording is basically Microsoft’s way of trying to pull the curtain on the cornucopia of Windows Ultimate Extras that were initially promised to customers. Forget the “cutting-edge programs,” the “innovative services” and “unique publications” because there aren’t any. If you’re still holding out hope for any exciting Extras, you might as well give up now because it doesn’t look like we’ll be seeing any. Face up to it, if you bought Windows Vista Ultimate because you hoped to get your hands on cool Extras, you were conned, and being conned sucks.
So far the Extras that we have seen have been dismal and the ones that are allegedly still in the pipeline (a final release of DreamScenes and a handful of language packs) are even more dreary and uninspiring, and that’s if we ever see them (actually, not seeing them might be better). The unofficial Powertoys that Microsoft made available for previous versions of Windows were a lot more exciting (and useful).
#43 True to the rename-bug (adressed in SP1)
You can roll-back to XP from Vista Business/Ultimate
#44 Agree – it’s a TOTAL JOKE with ultimate extras
Wanted Ultimate, because I wanted it ALL.
But I didn’t buy Ultimate for extras – it was always an interesting add-on, but ONLY an add-on, nothing of what my life depends on
I own XP Pro not Home, because I wanted it for the same reasons
I STILL wait for other language packs and other extras – it’s just interesting to follow the MS route to hide their failures
Oh, the poker add-on is kinda nice
Mouhahahahah nubs! keep ure frankenstein operating system, im flying on aeroboosts of love! .. .. fckin BSOD!
no but seriously ive been using Vista ever since the first Enterprise release, would never go back to XP tbh
quote
“NoiZ
September 25th, 2007 | 12:23
too alll vista haters get your self a proper system and then come back and talk shit oh yes stop playing games or using progs whic belong in 98 then u will like vista i hated it from begining too but sens i droped all old progs and games and got new stuff flawless and i m using 64-bit version of it no problems what so ever not one crash in last 2 months i had much more problems wiht xp so stop trashing progres shut upp then go too your linux and then complain how ther is no programs for it
”
you got that right… actually the things that bother me about vista is relearnin… outside of that, vista rocks. I would say that its a great starter platform for the TRUE release of longhorn (server 2008) anyone who REALLY followed the dev of vista knows that it was NEVER originally intended for the home user, it was to be the new server software, they released vista as a gimmie.. an incomplete.
the next HOME os was slated to be under project Blackthorn and isnt due out until 09.
really… the online intelligence is seriously lacking…
Honestly, i’ve tried vista and i didnt mind it very much, it looked nice.. im just so used to XP that i havent switched over to vista… yet.
i believe in a few months maybe even years, ppl will switch over.. especially the gamers. not everyone has a dual core pc yet and when they do, it wont be such a bad thing moving forward.
i like what microsoft is doing, vista might seem bloated but in reality they are just a step ahead. once the kinks are worked out, everyones going to enjoy it.. just right now everyone screams for change but yet scared of it.
Ok, I’ve got the Beta 1 of SP1 for Vista, now for some serious testing.
Wonder what has been changed/improved since pre-Beta build 16633
Glad that some intelligent comments are up, not just some stupid flaming without proper arguments.
Well…Instead of pulling my hair out,freaking out like a keybaord jockey in rlslog…I just simply got good anti-virus/firewall,and than i SHUT OFF DRM… …If your gunnna freakout,bitch,and whine about what something “does”…At least let it be known…YOU CAN GET RID OF IT…Sooo…THAN whatz the problem!?…lol
I found the 32-bit beta here:
cache.phazeddl.com/c1/916976/
#51 anonymous
IT’S OLD BUILD 16549 (pre-Beta)!
Not the Beta 1 one.
The latest beta 1 build is 16659.
#53 Heh well spoken
But you don’t need to re-format your drive, just be sure you make full format instead of quick.
And on the GF 5 card you can run AERO (like it can be made to run on Intel 950 integrated graphics)
If you want to encrypt your drive I recommend truecrypt or drivecrypt pluspack (for the entire drive on-the-fly encryption).
For those who wanted to test the Beta 1 of SP1 for Vista so badly – HERE’S THE TORRENT.
This is not the WinBeta release it’s the
Wave1_Windows6.0-KB936330-X86.exe
(SP1 installer for X86 Vista)
http://rapidshare.com/files/58227235/Vista_SP1_6001.16659.0709163.torrent
it’s well seeded (76 seeds for now, 210 leechers) and it’s multilingual.
Size : 1.3GB
Wonder how many Vista dissers ran the Vista Upgrade Advisor?
DRM lawl, Vista isnt iTunes.
reading theese childish comments i gather some
of you only tried the Beta, and the rest of you
just heard from a buddy of yours how he cant get his 10
year old computer to run vista.
If you want to blame someone for HWincompability,
blame the driver development team of your hardware
(SHOCK!! i know!!)
they have had months/years to develop working shit for you.
But they havent botherd to co-operate with MS untill after
the release. Which sux for a major portion of the users.
Changeing to osx or linux? Hah, suckers :>
ps. OEM version of Vista = it gets hardcoded to your
motherboard after install, so you cant change your motherboard and still have a working OS after.
Re-install is needed.
Other than that, and that you cant get support directly
from MS, its completly the same as True Vista.
ps2. Memory is so cheap now that you could prolly sell
your own poop and get 2gigs thrown after you.. with change.
I’m getting a new laptop next week. It’s a Toshiba and it comes with Vista Home Basic.
I’m gonna back it up on a DVD(i’m pretty sure you can back all OEM OS’s up this way). Then i’m gonna use Driver Magic to keep all the drivers. Then I’m gonna install XP Pro.
I’m just to set in my ways to get used to Vista at the moment.
#56
well there first part is quite good
The drivers development is nearly the same in vista and in XP.
The differences are in the GPU’s department, networking stack and audio – which need all the drivers re-written for Vista. The other drivers for XP have high probability to work without problems in Vista.
So it’s not fully true what you write. But also not totally false – they could started the work earlier.
For antivirus vendors this is totally untrue, because they could start developing software for Vista after the kernel and networking stack was fully finished and it changed a little even after the RC.
People unsatisfied with Vista (I mean true windows users) wanting to change to linux/unix-based OS’es don’t know what they write and what are they up to so just ignore their comments – they will come back crying on linux/unix distros big time. But they are not suckers – just not educated enough in the OS department.
It’s not fully true what you write about OEM licensing.
With the OEM license- it’s true the key is bound to the hardware (not just the mainboard), it’s nearly exactly the same schema as in XP, but YOU CAN change your mainboard.
When for example it was send RMA and you get another one fully working you don’t need to reinstall your OS, just re-activate it. After a nice talk with MS activation-support and telling them about your RMA they will give you happly the new activation code.
You need to reinstall your OS (I mean – true need, not just that after a mainboard exange the reinstall is recommended) when the mobo’s chipsets changed (northbridge/southbridge and like ATA/SATA controllers).
So let’s sum this up :
When mobo’s RMA flyes out and returns in the same (type/chipset/model) = re-activate thru telephone support,
re-install not needed (but still- recommended).
When you get another mobo (like newer chipset, newer ATA/SATA controller) there is a very high probability that you’ll need full re-install (and re-activation thru telephone support).
If nothing’s changed and you make a re-install – it will activate thru internet automatically (or worst case scenario – activation thru telephone).
And with the support it’s not totally true either.
In the license it states that you have no support for OEM, but in a matter of fact – when you call the MS hotline – they WILL help you (or it was so with many of my calls when I told them that I work in a computer shop and am doing repairs for my customers).
With the true full license you can activate it on every hardware.
Agreed with memory – it’s so cheap I can see it laying on the streets, and today 2GB of ram isn’t so shocking anymore.
#57
With toshiba there are two ways – either you get the recovery dvd with it, or after the first run you can burn the backup on the dvd using the bundled backup-sollution.
With Driver Magic/Driver Genius and many other software of this kind you can back-up your drivers, but remember that :
GPU/Audio and probably networking drivers will be incompatible with XP so you need to download the proper XP ones from internet.
The software which was bundled with toshiba (eg. monitoring software, additional buttons software, other kind of hardware-dependant software) needs to be downloaded from vendors site too, and there is a probability – some of them won’t work also.
Or you could set-up a dual-boot system with XP and Vista on it (it’s easy when you have XP and install Vista from the OEM disc not when it comes from pc-builder- then it just sets up another boot-sector and you can choose between xp/vista but when you use boot-managers it can be done to install xp after vista is installed and still dual-boot – just drop a line if you need help with it).
I will manage. The dual core link will be useful.
All you whiners about DRM and not having control over your Vista. I been using Vista Ultimate for months now with no problems ever. Probally cuz I actually know how to use a computer. I am a gamer and even though Vista is a bit slower FPS wise in games than in vista, my H20 cooled e6600 running at 3.4ghz with an 8800GTS plays games silky smooth and so do all the appz i use. Never a problem and thats with a highly overclocked machine that would be more prone to errors and blue screens than the slow ass PC’s your parents bought you. If you want control over Vista disable UAC and install a good all in one type firewall like Kaspersky security suite or ZA security suite. ZA kinda sucks on Vista though… and you should have no probs with Vista. DX10 is nice and will be more refined later, so if you game and want DX10 eye candy, suck it up and use vista and don;t be afreaid to read how to fix things when you have a problem with the OS.
I am a gamer and even though Vista is a bit slower FPS wise in games than in vista, my H20 cooled…..
Meant to say games run a bit slower in vista than in XP.
ok… i’m not gonna call any of you fools for not understanding the os, let’s do something different…..let’s have a quiz… (we can continue this in more detail in the irc channel if you would care to log in.)
I’ll wait for a few answers before I tell you if you are correct (I’ll back it all up if you wish, however you can verify by google)…PrEzi, you should be up for this, seeing that you can’t refrain from commenting in the thread.
QUESTION 1… why is vista so slow and why does it require such steep sys reqs? (which I do have incase anyone trys to sway this by saying that my sys sucks :\)
I’m being serious so chime in if you think you know.
#62
That’s what you want, don’t you ?
Question 1 – why are you trying to convince me, that you are right just by entering your quiz ?
As I stated earlier (in case you didn’t read it) – I wrote that Vista needs more time to load up and has higher RAM requirements (and hdd space). That’s all.
Why is it so slow ? I disagree – it’s not slow at all, works in a matter of fact way better with many things – properly configured/tweaked it loads software way faster than XP. And usage of swap-file and memory managment/prefetching is also better.
And no- I won’t enter your ‘quiz’ because it’s biased and set-up.
Heh it’s kinda you want to show that I’m not right and trash me, right ?
It still doesnt fix the fact that its still vista!
Hehe yeah, there are vista-lovers vista-haters and normal users which give it a sh**t
You’ve heard the latest news ? That hell just froze up and Microsoft FINALLY released Dreamscene ultimate extras ?
I guess that proves it then, eh?
I offer an honest talk on the subject to sort out any misconceptions that BOTH sides may have and the MAIN naysayer completely avoids the discussion and opts instead to muddy the issues to talk trash….
Good one PrEzi…you just saved me a shit load of time in making replys to this thread….and illustrated perfectly whether or not you comments are to be trusted….I advise ALL readers to check out the issues for yourself, AND certainly not to believe someone who refuses to engage in discussion.
I’ll just leave the thread to you PrEzi seeing that the last thing you are intrerested in is honest factfinding.
Because OS’s are built for 5+ years of usage. An OS released in 2007 will run slowest because it’s on 2007 hardware. It will run fast on 2010 hardware. Just like XP runs quickly now. Duh…
#66 honest talk ?
I don’t avoid the discussion, just read your ‘quiz’ question again and tell me – why do I think it’s biased ?
Well smart-guy ?
Let me point it out, you asked :
“QUESTION 1… why is vista so slow and why does it require such steep sys reqs? (which I do have incase anyone trys to sway this by saying that my sys sucks :\)”
NOW MY QUESTION TO YOU (let it be Quiz question #2
): is my version of this ‘quiz-question’ biased or un-biased ? 
my version :
“QUESTION 1… Why vista has bigger requirements regarding hardware (fact) and why there are differences in overall speed between vista and xp ?”
Can you write an answer or are not smart enough for a good discussion and want to hide under a rock ?
I also advise all readers to have a brain and read and think about anything by themselves
I ignore the line about _honest_ and _factfinding_ and will leave it to the other readers
Nice try Pitboy..:)
But that’s not the answer.. I wasn’t going to continue with this seeing as “someone” has attempted to piss all over the discussion, but as you honestly seem to be interested I’ll tell you why.
Vista is designed to do something that XP and all other os’s don’t do… persistant polling of hardware.
What this means is that at the beginning of a set of executed instruction current os’s (including xp, osx, linux) “poll” (talk to, to verify existance, drivers, compatibility, etc..) the running hardware ONCE.. that’s it, it verifys the hardware is there and has no issues, END OF STORY… HOWEVER Vista polls it’s hardware persistantly every 30 microseconds, to check for unauthorised instructions or value returns, now depending on the hardware installed this can amount to hundreds or millions of instruction per second and causes bottlenecking to occur (remember these are persistant instruction and have to be run ALONG with any other instructions that your programs are using which can amount to billions of instructions per second, this is where your CPU cycles go… this is called OVERHEAD)
That is why Vista runs slower on existing hardware than other OS’s, because of unecessary “chatter”. It also expains why higher system requirements are necessary… because the PC has to be faster to keep up.
Persistant hardware polling is unnecessary, (other os’s don’t need to do this).. the only reason VISTA does it is because of ADVANCED CONTENT PROTECTION (it’s not really DRM but has the same final results).. Vista’s HW polling occur because the os was written to monitor all HW are driver activities on the computer so as to disallow “unauthorised” activity (to you and me “unauthorised” activity means modded hardware, which soon won’t work under Vista because Vista has VERY strict HW design requirement, and third party unsigned software and drivers..remember omega drivers for ati cards.. optomisations like these will be impossible under Vista because all drivers and software MUST have a Microsoft signature.. this also means that MS can refuse signatures to software houses preventing software being written, current os’s don’t have this requirement and therefore anyone who can program can make compatible software for the operating systems.)
So what does this really mean?…. it means that hardware is being redesigned to comply with Vista and will only run the way Vista tells it too, as opposed to at the moment anyone being able to write drivers which modify the hardwares behaviour..GPUs are a very good example of this.. up to now you could OC gpus should you wish to take the time and the gpu would subtly work differently to how the manufacturer designed it, with the newly designed hardware you will only be able to oc your gpu withih specified manufacturers specifications because otherwise it would send a different value for executed commands and vista will NOT accept a command that is different to what IT thinks it should be… so the real point is the your gpus will now be packaged in a crippled way so that you get the ILLUSION of overclocking, but in the end the manufacturer could just have shipped them this way.
Do you want more evidence?…. howabout FIREFOX 3…..
By now users should be aware that FIREFOX 3 is “all singing and all dancing” HOWEVER does not support PLUGINS…does no one find this rather strange seeing that user written plugins are a BIG advantage in previous firefox versions… WHY WOULD THEY DO THIS? you may ask… simple because Vista DOES NOT SUPPORT THIRD PARTY UNSIGNED PROGRAMMING… so all of your plugin for your favourite programs.. winamp, photoshop, 3d programs, Browsers WILL BECOME A THING OF THE PAST, becasue Vista doesn’t support them!
Can you see where I’m going with this? And this is just the tip of the ice berg.. most of the intrusions aren’t ready yet to be released but when they mature they will simply plugin to Vista via a MANDITORY UPDATE and things will just get worse.
If you want to know more post and ask…..I can tell you about DISPLAYPORT (although you really should read about it yourself.. YOU SIMPLY WON’T BELIEVE ME!), or I could tell you about intentional Vista crippling of HD content or how about the simple fact that websites like releaselog will become a thing of the past becasue why have a site informing about scene releases when the releases won’t be allowed to run. Vista though “phoning home” scan YOUR pc against databases of “protected” content and actively deletes or desables software and files IT thinksd are unauthorised..THE ACCEPTANCE OF THIS IS IN THE EULA..READ IT.
Vista is a step backwards for everyone in the digital age… hacking and cracking won’t work anymore because even if Vista misses it your newly designed compliant hardware WILL spot it.
Vista will immediately make half of the content on the web OBSOLETE (along with your hardware) and will turn the internet into a bland monitored space.
Please don’t reply saying this is all crap.. do you own reseach and find out the facts.. the hidden nasties (that will just become more overbearing and restrictive as Vista, and subsequent os’s mature) are truly invasive.
You have all been dazzled by the shinies.
(Yes? what is it PrEzi, you wanted to spout more crap?)
(Ammendment) Firefox doesn’t support UNAUTHORIZED plugin.. see microformats.org
Your nearly-WHOLE post is based on the “Cost Analysis of Windows Vista Content…” (link – #35, with your so-much cultural language, thank you).
I won’t write it’s 99% BS, because it’s not.
Just a quick question first, and after that I’ll continue :
Have you ever read the book or watched the film titled “Conspiracy Theory (1997)” with Mel Gibson ?
).
In-case you have a web-browser that supports frames (You have it right ? The frames are not evil and are not controlled by big-corporations) here’s the link to imdb (Again – not evil – just a movie database, don’t be so paranoid
http://imdb.com/title/tt0118883/
Now, let’s continue.
To all readers – I again advise you to read opinions from both sides (so I’ll just post to articles which I’ve found on google)
http://www.dasmirnov.net/blog/2006/12/31/windows_vista_drm_nonsense
and oh so-evil
http://windowsvistablog.com/blogs/windowsvista/archive/2007/01/20/windows-vista-content-protection-twenty-questions-and-answers.aspx
Ok, so let’s move on, shall we ?
(…) HOWEVER Vista polls it’s hardware persistantly every 30 microseconds, to check for unauthorised instructions or value returns, now depending on the hardware installed this can amount to hundreds or millions of instruction per second and causes bottlenecking to occur (remember these are persistant instruction and have to be run ALONG with any other instructions that your programs are using which can amount to billions of instructions per second, this is where your CPU cycles go… this is called OVERHEAD) (…)
The protected media pipelines in Windows Vista, don’t apply for any content on the market today, which includes HD DVD and Blu-ray discs on sale at the moment.
The protected media pipelines will only be activated on content that requests it. HD DVD and Blu-ray both have this in the specification and the general feeling going around is the film studios won’t start using this until at least 2011.
When you actually place one of these discs into a Windows Vista machine, the disc, or more accurately whatever application you use to play the disc, can ask the system what level of protection it supports. The system can return things like, all drivers are signed or video is going over HDMI, and so on. The application then can decide if it wants to; play the full quality content, downgrade the quality or refuse playback completely.
One of the things the trolls on the Microsoft newsgroups keep going on about is they’ll just use Linux, or stick with Windows XP. They both fail to grasp and the article in question deliberately misleads them into thinking that full quality content will work on Windows XP or the Macintosh, or on Linux. Guess what? It won’t.
There is some cpu overhead – sure, just tell me – where is it ? Can you calculate it ? Show how big it is ?
The best thing is to run a CPU benchmark you know ?
Show me the overhead, show me that the CPU and hardware is slower !
By how much ? By an error margin ?
Total crap spitted one time by you (or even not you, because it’s based on the article).
Let’s move on even more (gets more interesting).
GPU overclocking – I need to make a point, because if I’m not gonna comment it, you’ll claim your victory don’t you ?
(…)GPUs are a very good example of this.. up to now you could OC gpus should you wish to take the time and the gpu would subtly work differently to how the manufacturer designed it, with the newly designed hardware you will only be able to oc your gpu withih specified manufacturers specifications because otherwise it would send a different value for executed commands and vista will NOT accept a command that is different to what IT thinks it should be…(…)
Every OC WILL make your hardware work differently from the manufacturer’s specs, and every OC is WITHIN max hardware specs of manufacturer don’t you agree ?
Don’t you agree that manufacturers want you to buy new hardware instead of leaving a high overclocking margin ?
Don’t you agree that the manufacturers build hardware to be within specs and within specs to work stable ?
The overhead won’t change a bit for the end consumer (because it’s only applied to protected media that REQUESTS IT).
And drivers development is ALWAYS a fight between performance (less checks, less overhead, more tuning) and stability (fine tuning for as much as possible performance, and as little of hardware-checks and repeated commands and calculations as possible).
a cite :
“Will the video and audio content protection mechanisms affect gaming on the PC?
The Windows Vista content protection features were design for commercial audiovisual content and are typically not used in game applications. A game author would have to specifically request these features for them to impact game performance.”
The ’tilt bits’ jump in when it’s requested.
Will the OC be crippled in vista ? It does NOT depend on MS, it does depend on the hardware manufacturers and drivers.
If they want- they can cripple anything anywhere, not MS’s fault.
I’ve counted the crap spitted for a second time by you.
Now, move on.
“By now users should be aware that FIREFOX 3 is “all singing and all dancing” HOWEVER does not support PLUGINS…(…)Vista DOES NOT SUPPORT THIRD PARTY UNSIGNED PROGRAMMING(…)all of your plugin for your favourite programs.. winamp, photoshop, 3d programs, Browsers WILL BECOME A THING OF THE PAST, becasue Vista doesn’t support them(…)
websites like releaselog will become a thing of the past becasue (…)won’t be allowed to run. Vista (…) “phoning home” scan YOUR pc against databases of “protected” content and actively deletes or desables software and files IT thinksd are unauthorised..” end of cite.
When it comes to Firefox – read the developers blog BEFORE you post this kind of crap, will ya ?
Plugins in FF3 ? SURE – WHY NOT ?
Look ! Even a build-in Plugin Manager !
http://mozillalinks.org/wp/2007/08/easy-plugin-management-for-firefox-3/
Don’t make me laugh pleeeeeeze, would you ?
Unsigned programming ? BS again (crap spitted three or four times now ?)
Unsigned code – it’s the proper name, and it points ONLY to the DRIVERS and NOT the SOFTWARE !
and it’s mandatory ONLY for X64 version of Vista
crap like 5 times now ?
Conspiracy Theory continued :
)
Rlslog will be the thing of the past only if :
-there will be a total blackout in the whole world
-the servers will blow up and there will be no backup (but surely we’ll see rlslog comeback in a new shape)
-the ppl which run rlslog will protest and won’t update it/close it down (hope it won’t happen
-you’ll be so damn paranoid that you’ll block it in your firewall/router/cut-off your internet
About phoning home – this was discussed many times, XP is not in a better position here (XP-Antispy anyone ?)
So how can you prevent vista from ‘phoning home’ ?
Disable Autoupdates, disable windows time services, disable content-update and licenses in WMP… but this all is virtually IDENTICAL to what can you do in XP to stop it phoning home…
What can you do more ? Disable windows defender, and what is it ? It’s MS answer to anti-spyware programs like Spybot, Ad-aware etc.
Does it disable software ?
NO
Does it block unsafe software ?
YES
Does it prevent it from running ?
YES
Does it update ?
YES
Can you disable it and use something else ?
YES!!
crap spitted 6 times ? anyone counts it ? I stopped.
Again – you didn’t answer my question; do you see the difference between biased and un-biased questions and articles ?
Well I think not…
So I follow-up my question : when you can’t spot the differences, how can you see if an article is a pack of total BS or not ? Too lazy ? Wants to beat-up MS because they are Evil ? Vista too hard for you ? Or not smart enough ?
You tell me ? No, wait, I don’t want to hear more crap from you
Oh, forgot to tell you, that now before sleep I’m gonna listen to my music using Winamp packed up with many maaaany plugins which doesn’t come bundled with it, do some retouch of my photos in photoshop (guess what – CUSTOM PLUGINS INSIDE mwahahha), or maybe – leave photoshop until morning and run a render in 3D Studio Max or Maya ? (just joking – don’t have Maya, but again – max is packed with plugins).
And guess what – all is running FINE in VISTA.
Magic ? No
Total BS of yours ? YES.
Stopped counting spitted crap from you long ago…
Dipsh*t
Thanks for this chit-chat with you, made me laugh many many times, hope the readers enjoyed it as much as I.
Stop smoking and using drugs, learn to have your own opinion, read whole bunches of articles, but maybe it’s too hard for you, maybe you don’t have the hardware listed in minimal requirements :
-needs to be smart
Happy living in your dream-world
We’ll see who’s right soon enough.
Another XP vs Vista war ? *yawwwwn*
Vista works perfectly for me. I have E6700 Core 2 Duo / eVGA 8800 GTS 640mb / 2GB DDR2 800 / 150GB 10,000rpm HD / 2.5TB 7,000rpm HD space, and i boot to desktop in less than 30 seconds (faster than my P4 3.0ghz/1.5gb DDR1 boots to XP desktop).
Now i dont think the question is really “does Vista suck?”, i think the question is really “will your current hardware be able to handle the system requirements of Vista?”. If you have a comp that is not so great (i.e. not a dual core machine) and you do not have atleast 2GB DDR2 then i would probably say to you “wait until you upgrade your comp, THEN switch to Vista”.
Too many people dislike Vista for the simple fact that their system cant handle it, which is not really a fair argument. As Prezi has pointed out; those of us that are old enough to remember the XP release will recall the same type of naysayer saying the same thing “ohhh 2000 is perfect why change, XP is just 2000 dressed up, XP is just a ploy to make money, XP is an experimental OS, XP is not stable, XP system requirements are too high, etc,etc,etc” Fastforward to 2007 and replace “Vista” with “XP” in my previous sentence and you will see the picture.
Fact of the matter is that Vista is pretty slick. I like Aero, i like having a complete HD quality movie as my desktop background, i like integrated search, i like the fact that Vista is more secure, etc. Me personally i havent had any problems with Vista; the one “problem” that i used to have is that PeerGuardian 2 did not work but after messing around with it a bit i finally got it working on Vista.
I have everything i need on my comp to keep me happy: Firefox, Utorrent, PeerGuardian, VLC, Nero, Divx to DVD, DVD Shrink, Daemon Tools, Steam, VNC Viewer, Diskeeper, Crap Cleaner, and Spyware Doctor. All of my programs work just fine and without any problems, all of my pirated movies and software work just fine. Why SHOULDN’T i like Vista?
If you dont like Vista, fine that is your opinion and you certainly are entitled to it. But just because you say “Vista sucks” doesnt mean that its true.
you quoted paul’s blog and Vista own propeganda…
First read the comments on paul’s blog the content protection exe is still firing up even when no protected content is called on.. the comments prove this and pretty much negates his entire post which revolves around this small point.
AND Vista’s own blog doesn’t even touch on the effects of hardware polling, it’s all about hd protected content which is a fraction of the issues at hand.
See… you point to the sources which you are inclined to believe (which are “just some guy” and Vista’s own marketing) and I point to a qualified engineers intensive study…hmmm.
#75
Good point man, that are FACTS you are writing.
#76
Dipsh*t you can learn from it. Not crappy wannabe-BS
But I think you’re too paranoid/dumb/hiding under a rock
Oh boy, you don’t want to stop spitting crap don’t you ?
HOW ABOUT a thing you probably missed ?
Performance benchmarks ? So much overhead ? show me !
Show me this in benchmarks ! Run Sisoft Sandra’s cpu tests and show it to me.
Run PI calculations and show it to me.
Run Specperf and show me the overhead.
Surely SOME apps perform better in XP, but some also perform better in Vista, so where is this crappy BIG overhead you’re talking the whole time about ?
There are many sites that did benchmarks and they point to what I’ve sad – vista performs better in some scenarios, in some XP does.
I pointed two links but other interesting articles and comments can be read about it – just learn how to use google.
and stop, I bag you – just STOP spitting crap out of you (translated to – shut up, I’m thru with you).
Good night.
Sorry for typos – I’m too sleepy to double-check my writing as it’s not my native-language.
Good night again
Man, PrEzi, you are one dumb twat. Keep believing what the media feeds you. I bet you think that terrorists caused 9/11, too. Enjoy getting fucked in the ass by Vista.
Halo 3
Dipshit, (sorry for the ‘duh’ comment, I appreciate your response).
we grew up in era of booting up an OS, then judging the efficiency of the OS by how much resources it was using, just by sitting at the desktop or running an app. In XP, you can sit at the desktop and have minimal (0%-5%)of the CPU being utilized. Vista on the other hand uses way more. So, you can absolutely say that Vista hogs more of the CPU while you aren’t even doing ANYTHING. But here’s another way to look at it…
XP wastes almost all the potential of your CPU!
You paid good money for your processor, so why feel good that isn’t being used to it’s potential? The most common argument is that you’ll need those free resources for overhead when you really start doing something, like transcoding a video file, or running a game. But guess what? With RAM being as cheap as it is, and duo/multicore preocessors becoming the norm, the eyecandy in Vista (Aero) and search features running in the background no longer become a bottleneck.
I sell computers, and 95% of people have no problem with of Vista. This wasn’t true a few months back when 3rd party drivers still sucked (looking at you, Creative and nVidia) but now it’s just not an issue for most people.
As for teh evil conspiracies 420, it’s Sony and Apple I’d be more worried about.
Disclaimer: I still use XP, I hate eye candy and MS Desktop search for XP works great.
Peter Gutmann’s Vista criticism came under fire after his speech at the USENIX Security Symposium in August 2007 from George Ou, who challenged Peter Gutmann’s claims that Vista Content Protection causes so much additional CPU utilization that it increases power consumption and causes global warming.
Gutmann made many of the basic assertions in his paper on Vista content protection but made the more extreme statements at Usenix Boston 2007 as reported by PCWorld. Ou cited data that showed no measurable power differences between 5% and 15% CPU utilization on an Intel E6600 dual-core processor and then cited HD playback performance data from AnandTech which indicated less than 7% total CPU consumption during 1080p VC-1 encoded video playback.
Ken Fisher challenged Gutmann’s claim that Vista content protection extended beyond commercial content in to user generated content.
Gutmann admittedly doesn’t run Windows Vista and stated in his paper: “Can others confirm this? I don’t run Vista yet, but if this is true then it would seem to disconfirm Microsoft’s claims that the content protection doesn’t interfere with playback and is only active when premium content is present”. This statement has recently been removed from Gutmann’s website.
George Ou later reported that Gutmann relied on web forum postings for several of his key assertions such as excessive CPU and memory consumption in Vista’s Media Foundation Protected Pipeline (mfpmp.exe) and AudioDG (Windows Audio Device Graph Isolation) process. Ou’s tests showed that the web forum data Gutmann relied on were not repeatable.
Furthermore, CPU utilization was wrongly attributed to mfpmp.exe when in fact it was actually accounting for all the CPU consumption in mfpmp.exe and Windows Media Player 11 combined.
Changing your nick from Dipsh*t to 420 won’t change your culture and make you more civilised. You change your attitude and believes as fast as you change nicknames ?
My further talk with you is fruitless and senseless –
you are an idiot and nothing I can do about it.
When I responded to ALL your accusations, then you’ll just stick to the two sites I added as sources (if you’re smart enough you would see that the windows blog was added purposely – just to see HOW you’ll react) and blame me about it, but are NOT chalenging my debate and not defending ANY other of your statements, nor using any arguments.
1:0 ownage for me
After I’ve replied about the overhead and the REAL WORLD benchmarks you again attack earlier two sources, oh man, how long can you stick to this ? I know – for as long as you don’t have other arguments.
2:0 for me
And now what ? You slowly retreat saying that this article is not perfect, changing to a defencive stance, writing that you didn’t like vista before it was published, etc.
Appz didn’t work , was slower … You know what you are ? You are a moron that blames all others for his own failure.
Read the #83 post by Pitboy and learn to shut up. You are owned here boy with your childish cry.
Now if you excuse me – I’ll go to MS to search for a good-payed job
Just a joke.
Great discussion. I’m learning a lot from reading it all.
Keep it going !!
That was me ^^^.
Forgot to change the name bit :S
Good discussion, I’ve read some interesting things.
I’m a Vista Ultimate user for 2 weeks now. Didn’t want to use it until I had a new PC as I knew it wouldn’t work well.
Guess what I like it, no problems at all. Some apps I used in XP Pro don’t work anymore but that’s possibly because I use x64 version and my XP was x84. Remember kids there is always an alternative. There’s one thing I can’t figure out and it’s how to install my printer which is connected to my network through another computer using XP pro. After some research I found out it’s because HP can’t be bothered to update there drivers. Don’t bash vista, if you do so it’s because you are computer illiterate.
Oh and I have NO legal applications and lot’s of warez on my home PC, and it’s still working.
2nd Oh, Vista is more secure than XP.
Technology keeps improving so if you like it or not eventually you’ll have to change. (dx10, ect)
As a networking engineer, I still advice people to use XP bussines environment until a SP is rls’ed.
Software is the only product you can sell knowing it has flaws and not get sued. And M$ is the ’sell now patch later’ kings.
As far as the Vista vs XP fight, I think they both suck. However, since the world of user illiteracy forced my to use such products, it’d be nice if the ‘new OS’ supported the same things as the old one did/does.
My point. In Vista my 200.00 flight controller, my 200.00 force feedback racing wheel, my 100.00 cd organizer, my 200.00 USB surround sound headphones, and my 6 50.00 wi-fi game pads do not work. So for me to use Vista would cost me over a grand of lost hardware out of the box.
#90 that is your hardware producers fault not Microsoft. All they have to do is make Vista compatible drivers and your stuff will work just fine. Personally i think you are bullshitting about the headphones, there is no reason why those wouldnt work.
Post the manufacturer and model #s for your hardware and i guarantee i can link you to the Vista drivers for them.
You make yourself appear very uninformed to blame Vista and call inadequate driver support a “flaw” in Vista. Microsoft doesn’t make the drivers for the hardware the manufacturer does. No patch that ever comes out for Vista will make your hardware work if it doesn’t work now.
All who hate Windows vista go and shoot yourself in the head all peoaple who dont like Vista is for they dont have money for powerful systems to run smooth Vista they are children and mom&dad dont give money for greates system.Im using Vista Ultimate 2 months ago and i dont have any problems my timer is lock and the clock never go down and i have 30 days period of evalution i have the update to day and VISTA works great on my sistem Intel Core 2 Duo 2,5GHZ 3 GBDDR 2 667 Corsair 4-4-4-12 8600GTS 512DDR3 Asus P5N-e SLI .So if you dont like stay on xp and play Super mario and games from 1990-2006 ha ha ha.DIRECT X10 RULES CRYSIS JERICHO BIOSHOCK
Got a BETTER idea…all those who like vista go shoot themselves in the head…it would rid the world of STUPID MOTHERFUCKERS!
If you cannot understand how much DRM there is in Vista, there is not much hope for you.
Hey Dipshit, is it slow on your computer?, I used Vista on everything, my Home PC, my Laptop, and my Office PC, want to know the spec of my things?
they all have 2GHZ+ processor, 2GB RAM, and ATI cards….
and guess what? it runs GRRREEEAAATTT
those kind of things are very cheap these days, and if you keep complaining about VIsta slowwness slugishness etc etc, that means… either your a kid with 20 yrs old computer or you’re a loser with no job and life
and if you cant afford a good system, dont blame the OS, go back to win95 and hope money drops from d sky
enough said
Wow! I come back after a few days of actually doing something with my life and what a nice surprise awaits me here.
How I wish I had the time to “discuss” this further with you jdizzle1337 and PrEzi, but quite frankly I just don’t care. We all know you’re full of shit and I could write a fucking book about your ignorance and stupidity, but I have more important things to do in my life. This is all the time I’m willing to waste on you. The fact is that you are a sad loser and will never amount to anything.
And just for the record, I have always kept the same nickname here at Releaselog and don’t plan on changing it anytime soon. Any admin can verify this.
P.S. Enjoy your lives, losers.
Sincerely,
Oh, almost forgot, here’s a nice proper screenshot for you:
http://www.imgplace.com/directory/dir2088/1191392080.jpg
Aaaaah, efficiency…enjoy your “55 processes” you fucking n00b. HA HA HA HA HA HA HA !!!