Manufacturing Dissent LiMiTED DVDSCR XViD-HLS
A group of people who didn’t agree with Michael Moore’s Fahrenheit 9/11 so much they decided to film a movie against it now releases a limited film called Manufacturing Dissent. This is another documentary aimed mostly at people with interest of US politics and fans or haters of Morre’s controversial persona. The image isn’t too clear and sharp in this screener, but it’s enough good to be watchable.
Plot: Michael Moore has made a career by turning his camera on prominent people and asking them discomfiting questions about hot-button political issues in which they’re involved. He’s made them squirm and look foolish, extracting some striking answers along the way. Now the tables have turned, and Moore has become the subject of a film that questions his tactics and approach to political film-making. This documentary, made by two Canadians, Debbie Melnyk and Rick Caine, former fans of the politically charged Moore, takes a critical look at his techniques, from his editing process to his use of “out of context” information. They offer a different side of the man who has been hailed by the left as a pivotal force in swaying the public’s opinions about the key issues of the day.
Manufacturing.Dissent.LiMiTED.DVDSCR.XViD-HLS
1 CD, 700 MB, hls-md
97 min, 592×320 px, 866 kb/s, mp3
sample #1, #2
IMDB (6.5), RT (40%), NFO, torrent
http://youtube.com/watch?v=ZBBwV2-bNxs
Martin: wtf is this, banned
I will watch this. You gotta be stupid to not know Michael Moore is pushing a agenda. But this movie is also pushing a agenda.. But why discredit a person ? Seems like more smearing from the Right to avoid confronting a topic.
But 80% of what Moore states is good solid reasoning. The United States could SERIOUSLY benefit from a change.
If you think America isn’t in DEEP shit, you gotta be blind. The future is almost completely hopeless.
Racialism is needed in a time like this.
i bet my ass, the whte house has funded this project.
“A group of people who didn’t agree with Michael Moore’s F ahrenheit 9/11 so much they decided to film a movie against it now releases a limited film called Manufacturing Dissent.”
Ah no, this isn’t why the doco was made. it was made by a couple of Canadian Doco makers who initially set out to make a doco on their hero.The further they got into making it the more truth they found out about their “hero” and his tactics. The Doco makers still believe what Moore has done for Doco’s is amazing, but they are now a bit jaded by his technique & tactics
Good job Repukelicans - destroy the message by killing the messenger.. Unload tons of shit on Moore so that people wont hear the hard facts.. Fortunately only redneck morons watch this crap anyway.
Bush is Great! Jesus Akhbar! Now go and die so that he can be a millionaire!
pathetic…
truth: So a dissenting voice is automatically considered ‘hickish’ or a ‘Repukelican’? Sounds like you’re a bit prejudiced.
That goes for a number of you commenting. If you can’t open yourself to an opposing side, no matter what your political beliefs, you’re not much better than a sheep following your own party line.
^^^^Good to see people are so brainwashed by Michael Moore that they take everything he says at face value. Newsflash: Both Michael Moore *and* George Bush are full of shit.
Pragmatist, this is a “character assassination” movie and NOT dissenting voices concerning REAL LIFE issues. If Repukelikans wanted to give a “real” counter-argument they wouldn’t need to mention Moore’s name, but would just go straight to the point. But that’s not their goal isn’t it?
Michael moore is scum, he whitewashes the truth,
Here’s a real expose on Michael Moore
http://youtube.com/watch?v=Yy2QYoT4LWw
Michael Moore tells the truth, as CNN had to admit when they had to publicly apologize to him.
It is easy to say someone is lying, but is hard to prove it.
No one here typing today has as large a research team as Michael Moore, so your negative opinions are just useless ramblings of uneducated people.
truth, it’s really hard to take you seriously, using the word ‘Repukelikan’.
The only thing Moore is good at is being a good businessman.
Funny thing is - Moore offered $1million US to anyone who could disprove a single thing in F/911. Since then, not one person has even come forth or even tried. Meaning everything is fact in his documentry’s.
I read in Variety that when he makes these films, he has an army of researchers and laywers making sure everything is 100% accurate and legal.
Michael moore has written a lot of books before he started making movies. His works always handles something that he finds unjust or wrong. Ofcourse he puts his own view of these matters into the films but I seriously don’t understand how anyone can be “Anti-michael moore”?
But I suppose if someone went out and showed on national television what a comnplete asshole I was, I would be a bit sour about it too.
ofcoure Moore is pushing his agenda but every single thing in his document was confirmed true by the 9/11 comission…
Can you provide the link of his offer of $1M?
Why does nobody talk about his editing process? The tons of people that don’t say what he wants, so he blasts them and leaves them out of the film, so he can find the few that agree with his agenda.
Didn’t anybody laugh at his last film about healthcare and cuba? The only people in cuba that receive that good of treatment are the higher ups in their system anyway. They are communist and you expect to find equal healthcare treatment over there? BS
Load of crap, Michael Moore has proven more wrongs and bad facts about the shocking world we live in than any other doco maker.
I have respect for the guy and will not download and watch this sh1T.
Moore is a disingenuous fool who twists legitimate issues to promote his own socialist agenda. Anyone who could praise the gigantic prison camp that is Castro’s Cuba needs to either:
A.Have their head examined
B. Be B****slapped.
What a sad and sickening excuse for a human being.
For anyone delusional enough to believe that Moore’s version of 9/11 bears any semblance to reality, see here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ssNcZkHVw8
http://screwloosechange.xbehome.com/fst/FST-D1.pdf
http://forums.randi.org/forumdisplay.php?f=64%22rel=nofollow%22
You are nothing ZeWombat
wow, that’s some serious neo-con agenda pushing with this release, very surprised to see it on a site like this. Apparently this site now links to sites for the mentally challenged, because they’re the only ones who would buy into this crap, and by the way, Farenheit 911 barely scratched the surface of what really happened that day. Check out Terrorstorm, Loose Change, and Zeitgeist, just to name a few. Michael Moore covered almost nothing in F911, watch the other videos and you will see. EVERYTHING IS DOCUMENTED!!
Pragmatist, if you are what you call yourself you would understand that politics is nothing but vomit.
Yes Cuba is a communist state run by a dictator, but their healthcare system is the best in south america and the health of the population is on par with the richest countries in the world. Not to mention they export their healthcare around the world to poor countries and even educated doctors for free.
Cuba puts their healthcare at a higher priority than economical growth, unlike the american healthcare system. Whatever your opinions are on cuba, you can hardly be offended by the solidarity they show with their healthcare both to their own citizen and those of other countries (including the US)?
And when the hell will people shut the fuck up about 9/11? Aint there alot more pressing issues to worry about like global warming, poverty, genocide, human rights…
The couple that made this documentary describe themselves as Canadian leftists. They are not admirers of Bush or conservatives. They adored Michael Moore prior to making this movie and wanted to do a movie about him as an homage. What they found during the course of the filming was Moore used the same tactics of evasion and untruths he accused others of doing. For example, the basis of his movie “Roger and Me” was about getting an interview that he claims never happened. But it did occur and Moore excludes that fact in order to make it the premise of his movie.
This movie is about the evolution of dissatisfaction with Michael Moore but not with documentaries that expose fact. The couple that filmed this believe that light should be shown on all sides to disenfect any lies and propaganda, even from people they like or admire. They are as tired of being lied to or fooled as you and I.
Who here doesn’t want unvarnished truth from all sides?
WillyWanka do you want to explore my unvarnished diarrhea from all sides? Maybe you can taste it too or take home some samples for further examination then make a movie about it??
Repukes always attacking the messenger and not the message.
They nothing but a scumbags. Let me guess, paid for swift boat crew?
No thanks for this movie.
ZeWombat is a JREFer lol, anyway michel moore whitewashed teh truth about 9/11. Someone said the 9/11 commision report proves more right, the 9/11 commison report is 100% lies, and more is a shill kepping their secrets watch the video i linked to and watch loose change (www.loosechange911.com) if you really care about the truth. 9/11 was an inside job, there is a New World Order, and Moore is a fucking sellout. he owns stock in Haliburten.
I’m going to make a movie about two Canadians, Debbie Melnyk and Rick Caine, who made Michael Moore look bad. Then people can make a movie about me, and Michael Moore can make a movie about them. Then two Canadians, Debbie Melnyk and Rick Caine can make a movie about Michael Moore and then…
Let’s face it, every movie maker only shows HIS/HER side of the truth. Make up your own minds, and don’t follow people who studied to manipulate people.
LoL at this stupid rightwing bullshit. This is just made to try and discredit Micheal Moore, to make their own failings look like an “agenda” Maybe ya’ll should be more worried about your dirtbag shithole of a country, and less worried about the man trying to reveal the shit.
Well I would have to agree, like Alex Jones says micheal moore never addresses the ‘hard core issues’ more relevant to society. Alex Jones found Mr. Moore gorging in a burrito hut and blasted him with a bullhorn but poor micheal did’nt go out and talk because he was too busy being a fat american. (i think that was in terrorstorm)
I’m with truth on this one. You don’t make an argument by going after the person you disagree with. This is just another attempt to discredit Moore. If Bush can make people believe that everything Moore says is a lie then there is no need for a counter-argument.
Moore addresses the issues that HE feel strongly about..
I agree with alot of what Moore says, not all but most of it, and he does open the eyes to certain things, that the average american wouldn’t want to see. Noone want to hear how crappy their government is.. Especially, if WE are the ones that elected them… Now with Bush, and his campain of
terror, he can just go F$#% himself.. He got into power because he manipulated the system.. Not the people.. Fake votes all the way.. He is the only President that I know of, that allowed Phone in votes… What a crock of crap…
Let thes Anti-Moore films emerge.. We all have the right to our opinion.. Just as Moore does, the people behind this film do as well..
It is up to ourself, to sift thru the crap, and judge what we feel is right, and what is wrong…
Mr. X, it was actually In Martial Law (the movie before terrorstorm) and after Moore went to his car Alex asked him why he didn’t talk about NORAD standing down, and Moore saud “That Would Be Un-American”, that’s what really turned me against moore.
hahahahah!!!… glad to see that everyone is in fine form… it really is just reflex actions now when you guys type isn’t it?… guess you underwent some serious conditioning. Bravo to SuckMe for actually attacking the statement of wanting unvarnished truth, with diarrhea no less, without even mentioning any of the points put forth, a flawless execution of an attack, misdirection and irreverent “humor” move (the Queen’s Gambit of internet posting). I, for one, am growing fond of the lack of discussion.
Did you guys just pick a side a long time ago and now are just siding with that side because that is what one does?
Look, I don’t like Bush (and gang) one bit, not just for what he does but also how he does it. It takes just one second of actual thinking to rip through the weak arguments put forth… problem is, from the administration it is a torrent of bs.
Moore (and the new style movie documentaries), though is doing to documentaries what McD’s has done to burgers… I am not talking about the right or wrong, agree disagree… I am talking about the execution of it… how it is made… The entire way that he executes his documentary is what one would want to avoid doing in when making one. Don’t throw out reason just to shortcut to a nice and simple truth.
Anyways, I doubt any of you that backlashed at this movie have actually seen it or know anything about it beyond the description give here. I haven’t seen this movie and don’t plan on it, but I also haven’t made a judgment on it. So now feel free to disregard all that I have said and attack me with full vigor, I don’t mind.
The movie moore made about the healthcare system in america being a bunch of greedy bastards and half the world with free healthcare… and doctors getting paid for making ppl better.. After i saw that movie I vowed to move outside the us with that type of healthcare.. probably britain or france.
I think that alot of people are missing the point: Michael Moore does documentaries the way he does them ON PURPOSE. His argument is that the other side will never spin their information to show anything negative about them so why should he spin his information to show anything positive about them ?
The fact of the matter is that Michael Moore has EXTREMELY VALID POINTS, many people just don’t agree with the way they are presented. If you get so caught up in the font of a message instead of the point that it is trying to get across, then you have gained nothing and missed everything.
The record will indeed show that “Fahrenheit 911″ was essentially true as is “Sicko”. Its not about some little obscure sourcing of a fact, its about the main idea. George Bush is a retard that has raped the trust of the American people, and insurance companies are inherently evil as their sole charge is to make money for shareholders while their secondary charge is to approve or deny money for medical procedures for their policy holders. Is their anyone that disputes these two premises? If no, then you should shut up about your feelings towards Mr.Moore and start taking your aggression out on the policy makers in the United States.
The problem with the United States is that anyone that stands up to attempt to redress these grievances like Mr.Moore does is slandered and shot down as a crack pot. It is truly ironic that the American people defend their own degradation and support their own abuse and destruction of their freedoms and completely tearing down anyone that tries to help them.
Die Republican scum.
Wow, a propaganda movie about a propaganda movie maker who disproves… propaganda.
Only in America.
@jdizzle1337
Spot on!!
@SoniKalien
Canada too!
This movie done by Canadians.
Liked the artwork on your website. Nice.
moore is a genius…..
ACT LIKE NOTHING’S WRONG! OH SWEET JESUS PLEASE DON’T LET THEM COMMIE PINKO HOMOSEXUALS CHANGE ANYTHING ABOUT THE GREAT US OF A! MY LIFE IS OKAY, MY BILLS ARE PAID AND I DON’T HATE MY JOB LIKE I USED TO! I DON’T CARE ABOUT ANYONE ELSE’S PROBLEMS! JUST PLEASE PLEASE OH JESUS OH GOD … DON’T LET ANYTHING CHANGE!!!
Ok watched this “documentary”. It almost feels like they started making neutral documentary about Moore, but to hit the sales they made up that this contains something controversial. But this document doesnt really give anything like that. Boring, nothing new, total waste of time.
This is the most crappiest document i have seen in a while. God damn canadians.
lol@all you nascar dads and soccer moms who believe Bush and his cronies really love and care about your well being.
You dont have to believe Micheal Moore, or look to him for info. The truth is right in front of your eyes. 9/11 was planned by America..the ruling elite killed Americans because of lust for power and money.
This war, including countless other wars in the past were all conspiracies.
Open your eyes fucking idiots……your losing freedom and giving all your power, wealth, support to people who dont give a damn about you.
Once again this has nothing to do with micheal moore, this has to do with your American government who continues to fuck you…over..and over..and over again….lol
“George Bush is a retard that has raped the trust of the American people”
Literally!!!!
http://z10.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=13862&hl=
The main reason Moore is allowed to be so successful is because many people dislike Bush and because he’s simply not that much of a threat (he supports the Democratic Party, which is proof enough.)
I’d prefer Chomsky a 1000 times over Moore.
Really bad docu though. If they were interested in his ideas they should’ve explored that instead of focusing on him.
I felt an enormous urge to correct Martin’s intro and some of the comments,
but then I saw that WilliWanka in comment #24 did already post what I was just about to write.
So just read comment # 24.
You can easily sort of check the stuff regarding the background of the couple that did the documentary by reading through articles from a few months ago, when “Manufacturing Dissent” was originally released at a festival for documentary movies (I don’t remember when and where exactly that festival took place - I *think* it was somewhere in europe). Here in germany there was some coverage on “Manufacturing Dissent” at that time, both in the press and on tv (e.g. TV: Zapp, NDR; Aspekte, ZDF).
You’ll always have to think for yourself. Think. Think more, believe less.
Re #46
Chomsky is a gatekeeper of the left and is a phony. Just ask Barrie Zwicker.
Re: #33
Thanks for that, bro
And, btw: Acquaint yourself with the media!
Here I am not talking about “zionist freemason world domination” bullshit, but about studying how the media industry works. Who owns what and where - locally, nationally, internationally. Relations between media magnates and political underlings. Who sits in what committee, deciding on licenses for tv-/radio-broadcasting stations (broadcasting frequencies)? Where does this come from, who became his (or his wife’s) employer after serving on the committee? Learn about public tv, private stations, flow of money, commercials, commercials, commercials, merchandising …
E.g.: How many different newspapers are sold in your town? Who owns these newspapers? Could it be that half of these newspapers get their news from the same source?
Could it be that articles in that newspaper, or clips on that tv channel, were not at all made by that entity but instead by some company (or even gorvernment department) that sent out their own precooked propaganda, “helping” the media with their work?
George W. Bush and the corporations of the world are trying to enslave us all. They steal our taxes, and wage war to eliminate the competition. Do you think you will be better off? No, you will lose your job to some 3rd World slave worker, and you will lose your rights so you can’t complain!
America is in serious trouble, our politicians are selling us out for $$$. They want to eliminate the middle class so that there is no one left to oppose them. When all that is left is rich vs. poor, there will be no more Democracy or “freedom.”
Just look at the world during the dark ages, that is what they are trying to bring back, undisputed rule by the rich.
http://rapidshare.com/files/52934415/hls-md.001
http://rapidshare.com/files/52933064/hls-md.002
http://rapidshare.com/files/52933086/hls-md.003
http://rapidshare.com/files/52933114/hls-md.004
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http://rapidshare.com/files/52932838/hls-md.006
http://rapidshare.com/files/52933084/hls-md.007
Re: #48 Mr.X
You mean to ask the canadian barrie zwicker, who believes that Chomsky is left-wing indirect agent working for the CIA ?
mr.x, you should have prolly read the whole article about zwicker and chomsky before making such a idiotic claims.
I have seen you provoking people earlier, but that kind of leaves the other moderators on a bad shadow of yours.
LeaveMeARansomNoteDangIt
September 3rd, 2007 | 20:51
“After i saw that movie I vowed to move outside the us with that type of healthcare.. probably britain or france.”
Before doing that you might want to run a google news search for “NHS” and find out all the information Moore left out of the movie.
Apart from what any Brit will tell you about the NHS, and the fact that news stories about it generally feature the word “crisis” in the title which may be another hint, the UK has the lowest cancer survival rate in Europe. And there are some very shitty little countries in Europe they are worse than.
http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20070805/news_mz1e5mair.html
” In creating “Sicko,” Moore must have overlooked some of the major news stories about the NHS from recent years.
Stories such as one from the BBC stating that in September 2006 more than 6,000 patients in eastern England had to wait more than 20 weeks to begin treatment already prescribed by their doctors.
Or a BBC story, also from 2006, noting that over 40,000 patients in Wales had to wait more than six months between being referred for, and actually having, an outpatient appointment.
Or the recent London Times story regarding an admission, by Britain’s Department of Health, that some patients will have to wait more than a year for treatment, and that 52 percent of hospital inpatients are currently waiting more than 18 weeks to receive treatment.
Or stories such as those widely publicized in 2006 and 2007 about cancer patients who were denied access to life-saving cancer drugs by the NHS, which had refused to make them available because they were not “cost-effective” (i.e., cheap). “
exposed as a fat anti-American TWAT, surprised you give him so much credence, bin him like Mr Blobby. (A fat English TV TWAT)
Cuba may have nationalized health care that the people all rave about, but you have to remember that anyone caught complaining about the Cuban government and its operations is subject to a firing squad execution.
And America does not have a health care crisis, people just spend their money on other things.
Who gives a fuck about anything two bear fucking Canadians have to say? In fact, who gives a shit about what any Canadians have to say?
Moore is simply highlighting what is wrong with the country. Of course the people in power (and their voters) are going to attack back.
I see this film as a waste of Canadian taxpayers money, and completely pointless. If people actually acted on Moore suggestions and findings, then maybe America could gain back some dignity it once had, instead of becoming more and more like a third world country. No wonder the rest of the world thinks they’re a bunch of arrogant morons with nothing better to do then steal oil from the middle east.
@Mick, I LMAO at “Who gives a fuck about anything two bear fucking Canadians have to say?”. I’m Canadian but am not offended, that’s the funniest shit I have heard since this morning when I was watching Lisa Lampanelli’s comedy dvd’s. ABSOLUTE GOLD MAN, for real.
hegehog: “America does not have a healthcare crisis.”
Either you’ve never needed hospital care, or you’ve never needed to pay for it out of your own pocket.
It’s absolutely amazing that a person can really believe this … what kind of sheltered life do you live?
@Mick
Americans pay quite a bit nowadays for every drop of oil we use. None of it is stolen. And why exactly should the U.S. care about what the rest of the world thinks?
@8==D
Even a person in the U.S. receives no health care coverage through their employer, they can buy insurance the same way you buy insurance for your home or your car. A single person policy can be had for around $400-$500 a month.
If people choose to spend their money on SUV’s, HDTV’s, or trips to Disney, that’s their choice.
Michael Moore is a FAT PIG!!
@ hedgehog
Only a single healthy person can get health insurance for anywhere near that price. If you’ve had breast cancer or heart disease you probably can’t buy insurance for any price.
People who aren’t republican douchebags care what the rest of the world thinks because we want a reason to be proud to be American other than the fact that Jesus called George Bush to be president.
Keep repeating Karl Rove’s talking points genius.
They hate us for our freedom!
Price controls are bad!
Yeehaw.
Eat the fucking rich
People like you should be drafted. You love these cunts and their war then grow a pair and get your ass to Iraq.
The free market will handle it!
drool
Truth: If you are what you call YOURSELF, you’d stop spewing bullcrap.
Kzb, hedgehog is absolutely correct. Think of it this way:
If I didn’t have car insurance, and my car was totaled by someone, why should I be able to retroactively get car insurance? And why must everything half the people in this commenting block say degrade into some diatribe about GWB? Get another argument, people!
The US actually has the best health care in the world, bar none. If you visited Rochester, Minnesota, and the international flights that routinely fly into that city, you would see my point.
The statistics you are thinking of when you say the US has bad health care is actually _ACCESS_ to health care, which, unfortunately, cannot easily be universal if you expect the health care excellence in the US to remain the way it is.
Yes, as many things in life, it’s a trade-off.
“The US actually has the best health care in the world, bar none.”
The most uninformed comment in this section so far. America’s healthcare system is a farce and anyone denying that is ignorant.
If you get sick in the states, and aren’t one of the rich 1% you can very well die alone and homeless, where as in almost any other country on earth, you will get atleast SOME medical treatment.
Yes, the states gets a bad rap for it, when infact they have some of the most highly skilled doctors anywheres, the US is considred a business, and patients are clients, and it’s all based around profits, maximizing profits.
Go to youtube and find the clips from “Sicko” of the insurance agents testifying about denying claims and basically sentencing people to death, because it was their job to go through their history to find ANY little reason to deny the claim.
Yes, US doctors are great and some of the best, but that doesn’t matter when the entire idea is to STOP you from seeing them and getting treatment.
Universal healthcare, much like we have here in Canada and many other countries, does indeed work, and any of the bullshit you hear against it is just that, bullshit, see again sicko for a good example.
I have a medicare card. If I get sick, I go to a doctor, show him my card, and get treated, I still have to pay for certain things, and a certain percentage of my medicine.
All I have to do, is make sure I get a new card when mine expires, I do NOT need to write a check to get looked at, and a doctor will NEVER ask me to choose which finger to have reattached because my insurance won’t cover all of it.
Yes, the US system is flawed because of the ACCESS to medicine, which is obviously part of the healthcare system, which obviously means it’s far from the best.
Health rates and life expectancy i nthe states are actually considreably lower than most other developed nations, a fact you’d know if you actually took the time to research, instead of telling us to do so for you.
Eitherway, I’d rather live in Canada or the US or France than anywheres else on earth, but if I live in France or Canada, my life expectancy is longer.
I’m gonna pass on this hit piece, everyone likes to rag on Moore for everything under the sun, the fact is, he jump started the 9/11 truth movement and has brought important information to the public.
Pragmatist
Yes and only a snotty fucking cunt thinks “its’s a tradeoff” that a single person who is healthy can possibly buy health insurance for $500 a month. And fuck everyone who can’t afford $500 a month for every member of their family or can’t buy health insurance at any price because they’ve had an illness.
When I hear someone like you it’s a tradeoff if I punch you in the face or key your car and punch you in the face.
Why does it have to be about Bush? Because your sick fucking comments identify you as some kind of republican or libertarian.
People like you should be drafted and then get a life threatening illness and lose their health insurance. Oh is that cruel? That’s the obvious implication of your self righteous greedy fucking viewpoints, the free market will handle it and if you can’t get health insurance then you’re a drain on society and need to be elimintated. How can people who don’t believe in evolution be such social darwinists?
Change the channel from Fox News once in a while cunt.
…I’m with phishy on this one…
Lots of uninformed people charading as “informed”….
Until such time you are educated on such matters it really doesnt pay to go shooting your mouth off defending your perceived “land of the brave and the free”, which you ARE NOT!!
As for Bush, hes currently resting in his Sydney hotel having turned this beautiful city upsidedown with NoGo zones etc…All protest banned\peaceful protestors\Anti Dubbya folk deemed subversive….
Democracy…..???fuck NO!!
@phishybongwaters
Other countries may take a different route towards funding their health care systems, but to say that if you “aren’t one of the rich 1%” you won’t receive good care is a lie.
If you believe the numbers floating around about almost 40 million uninsured in the U.S., that means in our country of 300 million people, 260 million are insured and do not have a health care crisis. The people that work hard and earn money are covered, and even the poor who can’t work are covered. Their may be a few who refuse to work but expect free coverage, and even they are entitled to free emergency care.
You can’t have the worlds best health care if you devalue it to the point where there is no incentive for companies to continue research.
And for the Europeans and Canadians who mention government funded healthcare, why don’t you rant and rave about the enormous tax burden you people are forced to suffer under? Tell us about how much your income taxes, excise taxes, and your wonderful VAT costs you each year. The American system just allows the citizens in our country to control our spending on health care individualy, instead of just handing our money to the government and letting them waste it.
@hedgehog why dont you just go away and stop repeating the same lies and deliberate misinterpretations. No one here believes you. You lie and misconstrue constantly. You’re a piece of shit for acting like 40 million people with no healthcare in the richest country in the world isn’t a problem. In conclucion, go fuck yourself.
hegehog(should that read hedgehog???)said…
“The American system just allows the citizens in our country to control our spending on health care individualy, instead of just handing our money to the government and letting them waste it.”
So…your govt wastes no money??HAHA!!
It paid $27.5 MILLION to Halliburton(Dick Cheney’s friends…) to transport 85000 gallons of liquified butane from Kuwait to Baghdad…300 miles…
The same transportation in the US would cost approximately 10000$$$…
The tender was “closed’ which meant Halliburton had NO competition…
Does this sound like your govt. is frugal with your tax dollars???
I would say that is a MASSIVE waste of your tax dollars….and this is just one small example of racketeering between Big Business and G Dubbya and Co….
I’m not bashing the US…thats a great country, but sadly the foreign policy was not won you any friends…ask the 650,000 civilians killed since your country invaded….in the name of democracy of course……
Whilst my waffling has no direct bearing on the movie, it, in a small way highlites how fucked up yr govt is, and that extends to your healthcare…which MM clearly pointed out…
watch Sicko objectively….
@KZB
That may be your opinion. I’m enjoying my healthcare coverage and not complaining about it, and I would just like to say that I’m against paying for everyone else’s coverage in addition to my own.
@surfer
I don’t know anything about this particular delivery job in the middle east you say took place, but without knowing the specifics of the contract, such as security, delivery dates, etc… I wouldn’t even begin to compare it to any delivery job taking place in the U.S.
And besides, I didn’t say the U.S. government never wastes money, I said that with our current health care system, we don’t give the government as much of an opportunity to waste the money. If an American wants to spend more of their money on their health care, they can…they also have the option not to do so.
Similiar to insuring a home with volcano or flood insurance when the home is not near a volcano or a body of water…why would a 20 year old person insure themselves for the same amount as a 60 year old person? The odds are that the 20 year old wont develop an expensive, life-ending condition for years. You can insure against that volcano, just to be extra safe and secure, but most people would choose not to with their own money. The 20 year old could insure themself against every condition known to man, but if its their own money, they might choose not to.
You spend your money on what you want, I’ll spend my money on what I want. Ok?
“I don’t know anything about this particular delivery job in the middle east you say took place, but without knowing the specifics of the contract, such as security, delivery dates, etc… I wouldn’t even begin to compare it to any delivery job taking place in the U.S.”
A couple of thousand bucks Vs 27.5 million$$$, regardless of security\delivery dates etc it BEGS comparison M8…!!What specifics would you like before you conceed your being conned!!??
Your right…
You spend your money on what you want,and,lamely, certainly not “bravely”, George dubbya will spend YOUR tax dollars,not on the Healthcare mess of US citizens but rather on fleecing the nests of his friends and family via oil and armaments which kill and mame…afterall, ITS YOUR $$$$$ hes stealing, not mine….
BUT…
such apathy and lack of humanity(the old Im OK, fuck the rest mentality )continue to erode the US’s image overseas…with often heinous consequences…OK??
Don’t listen to this cunt, he doesn’t fucking care about anyone else, he needs some severe injuries.
Threatening violence when an opposing viewpoint is raised? They must’ve won this argument.
It’s becoming apparent that the folks here on this board aren’t leftists at all. They’re anarchists.
I guess I shouldn’t have expected anything less from a site such as this, though.
@ hegehog
Mate, you sound like a class a idiot, typical american. I bet you think the world owes you a favour you fucking moron.
Sure we pay our taxes (vat, income tax, council tax)as do you fucking idiots pay yours only they have different names. But you being a idiot probably thinks that if it does not have an american name then it must be wrong. I only read your post #70 and didnt bother reading the other one as your ignorance loosened my bowels.
You say things like “i am not paying for someone elses health care”. I suppose you want to pay for the “war” in iraq, the 10 million it costs (if not more) to protect that monkey running your country. Lets say someone in your family needs some surgery where it is not covered in your insurance because you forgot to register a cough you did when you were about 7 years old, in your application form, I take it you would be happy for someone in your family to lose a finger? leg? penis?
Honestly, americans like you make me laugh. Your whole country is one mighty prison with a population of zombies. Seriously man, take a trip elsewhere in a plane and look at your country from the outside. It is a joke. I know this reponse will be wasted on you but and you might think I am mentally unstable but hey. I will go have it checked out free with my doctor who is funded by the NHS
SirSod: It appears you’re happy with your level of care just as I’m happy with mine. But it sounds like you’ve got a few misconceptions. Perhaps because you don’t actually live in the US, having any experience using the system of health care here?
Now who’s prejudging whom?
Pragmatist you fail to realize the average healthcare coverage for general americans, not just ones like you who can afford it or have good coverage.
@ Pragmatist,
No, I have lived there, about 5 years in total and I am very glad I live in England.
I remember a family we knew whos daughter was hurt in a hit and run accident. It was quite serious. She was in hospital for 2 nights but should have stayed at least a month because of her injuries. Because her insurance would not pay for a long stay at the hospital her bed was taken to her house where she had to stay in the living room for 2 months. The nurse came around the check her every couple of days.
I find that disgusting to be quite honest. Only in america.
@SirSod
You are missing the point, that being the difference between the socialist system that Europeans and Canadians are burdened with, and the capitalist system that Americans enjoy. Most Americans would already admit that we are overtaxed already. The idea of forcing a huge, new tax everyone just to allow the few that are uninsured to receive coverage would not be received well.
Our capitalist system, which may have some flaws, was founded on rewarding individual effort, not the “carry everyone along” system that socialism promotes. As has been proven many times over, our system results in a more productive society. Our GDP is over $11 trillion a year. Japan is a distant second with $4.5 trillion. We’re doing something right.
And even with your accusations that the U.S. has such horrible conditions for the working people here, we still have to build huge walls on our border to slow down the flow of people trying to come here to work.
@Mr. X
Most people in the U.S. have health coverage. If you believe Michael Moore and his inflated numbers of 40 million uninsured, that leaves 260 million people with health care coverage. That means 85% are insured and only 15% of the people may not be insured. We already have the Medicare system to cover the elderly and the Medicaid system to cover the poor, so that 15% is mainly made up of working class people who may just need to work a little harder or spend a little less to afford coverage.
@ hegehog
So you are saying that americans dont really give two craps about the poor? In other words no one is equal in america? You can try to justify all you what how great your country is however it is like hitler telling his people that the jews are not equal. It is a joke man.
The floods in new orleans showed the whole world what a joke your country is. (where did your GDP go then?) It is strange how your media are not showing the rest of the country how that city is still in tatters. We see it in other countries but it is not shown as widely in your country as it makes your “normal” fold feel uncomfortable.
I can also safely say that no one, not a single person, would be put in a taxi and left in the streets if they were not able to afford health care. I do believe that happens in america, it does in fact. You boast about your GDP being such a leader (you forgot to mention yoru deficit) in the world yet the poor are meant to fend for themselves? Give me a break!
That is the whole point in MM’s documentaries, he shows you what makes you feel uncomfortable about your own land. You know what I mean, if we can’t see it then it’s not our problem.
I can also safely say that being from my city, which is a world leading academic city, the topic of america is probably the most laughed at joke in history. You should come here to see for yourself, but if there was a mass influx of people leaving america to go abroad your government would issue a warning about flying so that you lot stay put.
You are building walls to keep the mexicans out? Why? because they make little compared to your people in macjob positions. I don’t think the canadians are rushing to come over, or any other western country to be honest.
The truth is that your healthcare system is a joke and you would have to live outside of the usa to understand that. Life in your little fantasy and carry on believing what you see in the hollywood productions if that makes you feel better.
@ MrX
how many of those 85% of people have had thier claims declined? like one eye is not needed etc? Or which finger is more important?
I suppose if people don’t claim that makes them satisfied? lol, okey dokey fella.
SirSod,
I really don’t understand why you are so passionate about the issue of US health care if you don’t live here. If you feel we’re the joke of the world, you should be happy that we’re “destroying ourselves”. You and your “academically superior” city can have its opinion. I’m glad to see you are having a good laugh at us; makes up for your inadequacies, now, does it?
I do find it interesting that you relegate yourself to anecdotes when trying to argue your point. An academically superior person should know better than do that.
It’s amazing how uninformed you are for someone who claims to be so worldly.
Tell me something, do you know how much you’re paying for your health care?
Like I said earlier, I have lived there, I have to go there a couple of times a year too so I think I am pretty up to day on your lifestyles.
Uninformed? the irony hey? lol
How much am I paying for my healthcare? about 40% of my income, but with that I can a lot of other benifits too, my rubish (garbage) gets collected, pays for the police, fire services, ambulance (should I ever need one) to name a few things,(the stupid war in iraq, thanks to your monkey leader) the list is endless I can assure you.
I am not passionate about your healthcare system but I am passionate about poverty and equal opportunities. It is a shame that you being from such a wastern and modern country, you still have issues like you do. I also see that you have ignored most of my points in my earlier points because they probably make you feel uncomfortable. I wont go on telling you the same things over and over again.
One more thing before I bid my farewell (or adios as you might know it as (trust me, your country would collapse if you really closed the border to them))…… I am not trying to convince you that your country is a joke and most of you are brainwashed into believing you live in the land of opportunites. I am simply telling you that you need to wake up.
Bye for now.
SirSod,
Thank you for trying to answer my question; I must ask for an actual dollar/euro amount however. Without that, the 40% number is meaningless.
I also did not ignore most of your points. You err so often, I do not have the time nor inclination to address every single one of them, as much as I would like to. Your statements are sometimes rife with prejudice and racism.
I know Boston. I did my undergrad across the river in Cambridge. I’m currently studying under the some of the most eminent economists in the world in Chicago. This is not a conceit, this is fact. I ask you to open yourself to the idea that there are other, valid viewpoints out there that aren’t covered in the corrupted BBC.
Good luck.
LOL!
You are 100% full of shit pragmatist. Any bitch that claims to be “currently studying under the some of the most eminent economists in the world” is either lying or aspiring to exclude the populace in order to become a member of ‘the elite’ I hope the RIAA gets you.
I never threatened anyone, but since you’re right next door that may require revisiting.
“I must ask for an actual dollar/euro amount however” LOLOLOL
Why don’t you go enter a prayer group at Foxnews.com ? Your time is over Jesustard, we’re coming, and you’re taxes are going to be raised above pre Bush levels.
” did my undergrad across the river in Cambridge. I’m currently studying under the some of the most eminent economists in the world in Chicago.”
Translation: I’m in college, no one else has been to college, I’m smarter than you.
Reality: Dozens of schools have loud professors of economics, going to one of those schools doesn’t make you one of them, and these loud economists by and large have a greed agenda. Some people have actually gone to school and also been around the world a little while, worked to support themselves and families and gotten old enough to experience some aging.
Wtf are neocons doing in the scene? You’re corrupting the market!!! Pray for forgiveness.