Comments (118)

1. Avtaar
   February 6th, 2008 | 00:51

   good programme…. watched it while i was high.

2. eric
   February 6th, 2008 | 00:52

   Why make the good things sound so bad?

3. TempPD
   February 6th, 2008 | 00:55

   I saw “The Big Drugs Debate” when it was released and I found it interesting. Hopefully this one will have some good talking points too.

4. SKA
   February 6th, 2008 | 00:58

   AWESOME programme… caught this on telly.

   Finally some facts and relative comparison.

   Update the drugs laws already!!!

5. Mr. Big
   February 6th, 2008 | 01:12

   This was on TV!! Crap that reminds me i miss The Sarah Connor Chronicles last night!!!!!!!!

6. n00b
   February 6th, 2008 | 01:25

   ecstasy use to be fun for me until i lose the magic

7. miles
   February 6th, 2008 | 01:32

   I have been interested in this episode of horizon since i read about some time ago. though i hope it isnt simply a rehash of a journal article i read a good year ago.

   Though i am not a fan (any more) of drugs aside from nicotine and alcohol, science’s calls for reclassifications – through at least British law – have gone wholely unoticed since the original publication and i doubt that any public support stirred by this documentary will have any discernable impact on the issue as a whole.

   I will watch however watch this and see if it has any chance of re-ordering the proposterous continuum of drug classification in the modern world.

8. miles
   February 6th, 2008 | 01:34

   god that was a pompous comment

9. incog
   February 6th, 2008 | 01:39

   watched it tonight and was very interesting..no mention of crystall meth tho ..anyway has anyone got the top 20 listed???

10. miles
    February 6th, 2008 | 01:43

    i was sure that crystal meth was #1, certainly in the top 3. has anyone got RS links because i cant find a torrent or a usenet source anywhere. thanks in advance

11. incog
    February 6th, 2008 | 01:47

    number 1 was heroin..number 2 was coke

12. bman
    February 6th, 2008 | 01:52

    is there an http download link avalible ??

    thx ……

13. TempPD
    February 6th, 2008 | 01:59

    @10 incog

    Here is the list from most to least harmful:
    the letters (A, B, C, legal) represent the legal standing

    Heroin A

    Cocaine A

    Barbiturates (sedatives) B

    Methadone (opioid) A

    Alcohol legal

    Ketamine(anesthetic) C

    Benzodiazepines (sedatives) C

    Amphetamine(”speed”)B

    Tobacco legal

    Buprenorphine(opioid) C

    Cannabis C

    Solvents legal

    4-methylthioamphetamine (amphetamine derivative) A

    LSD A

    Methylphenidate(i.e. Ritalin®) B

    Anabolic steroids C

    Gamma 4-hydroxybutyric acid (depressant, “date-rape drug”) C

    Ecstasy A

    Alkyl nitrites (nitrite inhalants, “poppers”) legal

    Khat (plant-derived stimulant) legal

    [source: Nutt, David, et al. "Development of a rational scale to assess the harm of drugs of potential misuse." The Lancet, 2007; 369:1047-1053 ]

14. johnny sac
    February 6th, 2008 | 02:01

    Hey ReeGed, are you British or american? come to think of it, is this site british or american?

15. TempPD
    February 6th, 2008 | 02:01

    Here is the link to the paper I used above:

    http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140673607604644/fulltext

    It is quite an interesting read … if you are into this sort of thing.

16. mr p
    February 6th, 2008 | 02:02

    i disagree with so many opinions in this documentry and the list itself.

    its always worth mentioning that they say its backed by science but yet mention nothing about science apart from the affects on the brain.

    the people that should make this sort of list are experience drugs users not some scientists who think they know what they are saying because they have a degree.

    postive thing is that they have atleast looked at the drugs realisticly and brought into the mainstream that we have legal drugs that are more harmful than drugs that can send you to prison for decades.

    still disagree with the list though but it was an excellent attempt.

17. mr p
    February 6th, 2008 | 02:04

    and the fact that they just forgot about meth or think that meth is the same as english speed, sumerizes the general knowledge of the people behind this list.

    says alot.

18. TempPD
    February 6th, 2008 | 02:04

    … and to make sure I give all my references, I also got information from:

    http://health.howstuffworks.com/drug-ranking.htm

19. incog
    February 6th, 2008 | 02:05

    @ 14 TempPD ..no not that m8 the actuall result from 1 to 20 of most harmful drugs ie 1 was heroine 18 was ectasy..ie the findings of that programme

20. anon
    February 6th, 2008 | 02:06

    give me torrent plz thnx

21. xtazy
    February 6th, 2008 | 02:07

    yeah wheres the torrent at

22. incog
    February 6th, 2008 | 02:07

    @TempPD sorry bud understand now if your list had of been tagged 1,2,3 etc lol

23. mrquiteaguy
    February 6th, 2008 | 02:10

    @17 Mr P.
    Any experienced drug user that had experience of all or many of those drugs on the list,I dread to think of the state of them!.

24. TempPD
    February 6th, 2008 | 02:12

    @23 incog

    Okay, no problem! You are right though, I should have numbered them!

25. incog
    February 6th, 2008 | 02:20

    this is results of the 2 year study and findings of this programme;)

    ok guys heres the list from the horizon programme

    Here is the list from most to least harmful: 1 being most harmful 20 being least harmful
    the letters (A, B, C, legal) represent the legal standing

    1.Heroin A

    2.Cocaine A

    3.Barbiturates (sedatives) B

    4.Methadone (opioid) A

    5.Alcohol legal

    6.Ketamine(anesthetic) C

    7.Benzodiazepines (sedatives) C

    8.Amphetamine(”speed”)B

    9.Tobacco legal

    10.Buprenorphine(opioid) C

    11.Cannabis C

    12.Solvents legal

    13.4-methylthioamphetamine (amphetamine derivative) A

    14.LSD A

    15.Methylphenidate(i.e. Ritalin®) B

    16.Anabolic steroids C

    17.Gamma 4-hydroxybutyric acid (depressant, “date-rape drug”) C

    18.Ecstasy A

    19.Alkyl nitrites (nitrite inhalants, “poppers”) legal

    20.Khat (plant-derived stimulant) legal

26. TempPD
    February 6th, 2008 | 02:30

    @26 incog
    Thanks for numbering them.

    Why do you say “this programme”? The show is done by the same people who did the research paper (i.e. the paper I talked about earlier). The professor(s) (Nutt et al) are in the show and they are discussing their findings of the paper. So, the results of the show come from the results of the paper.

27. Stunzeed
    February 6th, 2008 | 02:38

    Why does RLS always do this. Give hope that I can view this and then a link NEVER comes out. WTF.

28. TempPD
    February 6th, 2008 | 02:42

    @28 Stunzeed

    read the FAQ:

    Q11: Why are so many of the torrent links on rlslog not linking to a .torrent file? http://www.rlslog.net/faq/#Q11

29. Rick
    February 6th, 2008 | 02:44

    RS Link please!!

30. New For Your Ass
    February 6th, 2008 | 03:01

    Live (2007) CAM XViD-TiRADE — Eva Mendes in this one

    Americanizing Shelley (2007) LiMiTED DVDRip XviD-LPD – nice Indian chick in this one

31. vb_master
    February 6th, 2008 | 03:01

    Sample: http://rapidshare.com/files/89513288/horizon.is.alcohol.worse.than.ecstasy.ws.pdtv.xvid-remax.sample.avi

32. SenPedro
    February 6th, 2008 | 03:02

    Hi, thought I would get in here early and talk about my experiences with drugs.

    I used a lot of different stuff a while back, I would pretty much try anything once. Most stuff I was well aware had serious health risks, hence the one use rule. Other drugs which were/are percieved to be safe I did regularly, particularly cannabis.

    Now a lot of you I am sure have used the drug, many probably think you know a lot about it. Some of you have memorised a load of names of different plant species, maybe you even use a vaporiser to impress your friends. Whatever, just please don’t let your own ego get in the way of what I am going to say.

    I used cannabis from the age of 14 till the age of 21. In that time I went from smoking very cheap nasty soap bar (a strange brown solid matter purporting to contain cannabis) to actively sourcing and using the strongest weed I could get, almost constantly. I live in the UK which (for the geographically challenged) is very close to Holland, the so called Cannabis heaven of Europe. From where I live I could literally be sat in a coffee shop legally smoking a joint of mind blowingly strong grass in under two hours and for around the price of a good night out, I did that regularly, not that I feel it’s important, just mentioning before somebody posts back how they were in ‘dam and how I am a lightweight. I would go over, get wrecked, spend the night in some seedy bedsit, then spend the next day buying anything interesting or unusual and sending it home. A little ritual I would perform when things got too much or when good grass was hard to come by.

    I smoked excessive amounts towards the end of my usage. Excessive by anyones standards.

    The delusions set in around a year before the end. I had been suffering from intense paranoia for a while, the general feelings of persecution which I am sure many of you have experienced. I began to interpret these feelings as part of a bigger scheme, link unlinkable events and situations together. At that time I found it pretty funny, the world seemed to be making more sense the less sensical I perceived it to be.

    As things continued I began to become more withdrawn. People who were once my friends I now believed were part of this grand scheme, I mistruted everyone and one by one I began cutting myself of from people. I stopped going out as much, limited my life to the bare essentials, work, home, smoke. In time I had become totally isolated, I split up with my girlfriend and was now completely alone, apart from of course frequent trips to buy dope and the necessity of work.

    My delusions escalated, I had formed a complex multi stringed theory tieing absolutely everything together. Of course I never talked about this, I just carried on in the same routine, getting deeper and deeper. I had become completely seperate from other people, I believed they all meant me harm but I was also convinced in my own ability to outsmart them. On the surface I was a highly strung hyper obsessive oddball but in a world of coffee drinking target obsessed stressed out office workers I suppose I didn’t stand out too far.

    This changed though. Social interaction was becoming impossible, I literally could not complete a sentence, my brain flashed away working on a thousand different complex thoughts but the simplest of everyday tasks defeated me. People interupting my thoughts became highly annoying, I began to get aggressive and after an interesting incident involving an assault and an accusation of drug abuse I left work.

    I had a bit of cash left over and so began the last part of my usage. My delusions seemed to be coming to a head. I was just waiting for something to happen. Mild hallucinations began. Previously I had been bombarded with flashing lights when stressed but the new hallucinations were beyond that and beyond any drug I had ever taken. Full auditory and visual hallucinations as real as any everyday experience.

    I was plagued by demons, followed constantly by helicopters and a strange green sports car would attempt to race me everytime I got in my car. Voices broke the silence in the evenings, whispering sweet demonic enchantments, telling me I was on the right track, goading me on further.

    The cannabis was the only thing that calmed me down, gave me time to breathe without interruption. Naturally I smoked more.

    One night something happened, I am still not sure what because I only remember the first half. I was found a few days later in the corner of my bedroom, sweating and terrified. The doctors were called.

    And so began my return to society. I was sectioned under the mental health act but then released into the care of my parents. I was powerfully medicated and I slept and ate well for the first time in years. For around a month I was pretty shell shocked but then I began to reflect and understand what had happened. The doctors told me I had psychosis which had been brought on by the amount of grass I had been using, the frightening thing was they could not tell me if I would ever get better. I now realised my beliefs were delusions but the hallucinations wouldn’t quit.

    For the next year, I carried on taking my medication, living at home, sleeping fifteen hours a day and researching the links between cannabis and mental illness, I was amazed quite how much info there was but how little of it I had ever heard, the chemistry of the brain and the effects of cannabis upon it were actually rather predictable if not simple, try proving them though! Anyway getting better was a lot less fun than getting sick.

    I began to want to be out again, to go to clubs, meet people, to get laid basically. I met up with an old friend from work and it was great. He had always thought I was crazy but we had got on, I started leaving the house, doing normal things again and in time got laid! That was a real turning point, one of the most frightening thoughts was not knowing whether I would be able to pull a girl ever again.

    Over the next few years my confidence increased, I got a girlfriend, a place to live, a job, a life basically.

    Now I am a person again but I am much changed, I live and function well, I obviously don’t hallucinate or suffer from delusions but the paranoia never goes. My brain still works away and I still find it hard to hold conversations but it’s okay.

    I have been in documentaries, written in national papers, given my viewpoint to the governments advisory council on the misuse of drugs and produced educational materials and supplements all on the dangers of cannabis.

    What you have to understand is.. Proof is what all science is based on but an absence of proof does not mean an absence of fact. While there are many highly regarded studies showing very definite links between cannabis and mental illness there is little understanding of why. Like in astronomy, some astral bodies we only know exist because of the ripple in the orbit of another. We have the cause and the result but we need to fill the gap in between.

    In my time I have been fortunate enough to meet thousands of people who have suffered like me. Many from my own town (and its a small place). People I have known from my past, who now are going through similar things and people who continue to suffer as they still believe cannabis is not the cause.

    The UK relaxed the law regarding the drug, a move I personally endorsed as I am not too keen on current drug laws. Education is the key to making a sensible choice regarding drugs and unfortunatly, information regarding the dangers of cannabis is still largely not in the public domain. How can anyone be expected to make a choice with only one side presented?

    Finally, thanks if you got this far. I don’t expect anyone to stop smoking after reading this but maybe a few of you who get sick will look back and at least know that unlike me you had the luxury of choice.

33. SenPedro
    February 6th, 2008 | 03:03

    Wow, that’s longer than I thought. lol

34. Harry K, Rotch
    February 6th, 2008 | 03:05

    “Any experienced drug user that had experience of all or many of those drugs on the list,I dread to think of the state of them!”

    Well, I’ve never taken steroids or solvents, but I’ve used all the others by the fistful for the last thirty-five years and I’m doing fine.

35. Kim
    February 6th, 2008 | 03:07

    @26

    How can they say that Marijuana is more harmful than ecstasy and LSD? People have ended up in padded rooms for using LSD!
    If they legalised Marijuana it wouldn’t have all that crap in it and would be less harmful than cigarettes.

36. Rev
    February 6th, 2008 | 03:10

    anyone have usenet or torrent links?

37. What They Tombout
    February 6th, 2008 | 03:11

    write a letter why don’t ya.. thought that was suppose to be about “all the drugs” you taken just cannibis nobody’s ever died from it so we well aware you can blow big for aeons.

38. Harry K, Rotch
    February 6th, 2008 | 03:14

    Look up the difference between correlation and causality, senpedro. If everyone who develops a psychiatric illness smokes cannabis, it’s not surprising that you’ll see a correlation between the two things. As for whether one actually *causes* the other, well, despite your testimony, the ACMD still doesn’t buy it.

    A couple of points:

    - Your psychotic episode occurred at the time most people who suffer from schizophrenia generally see the onset.
    - Cannabis use has risen steadily by enormous numbers over the last 40 years, and yet the incidence of schizophrenia remains the same. If the relationship was causal, you’d expect to see a concomitant rise in schizophrenia. It isn’t there.
    - All that said, if you do have a predisposition to schizophrenia, bipolar disorder, etc. smoking cannabis is probably a very bad idea. Having said that, I’ve done some research into the issue (I mean proper research now, as a professional) and when talking to people who have been hospitalized for psychiatric disorders about their relationship with cannabis, many say that they continue to smoke it because it actually makes them feel better than their prescribed medication does. While I don’t think that’s a wise course of action, it is comprehensible and in their position I may well do the same.

    Sorry to hear about your illness though, and I do hope you experience a quick and full recovery.

39. ReeGed
    February 6th, 2008 | 03:18

    @33, SenPedro:

    Thanks for sharing your experiences with us, I thought it was a very interesting read.

    Its important for people to understand the drugs they are taking in order to make it a good experience.

40. blake
    February 6th, 2008 | 03:23

    that list is bogus. weed and lsd above ecstasy and some research chems? haha. lsd has no pyshical side effects at all. ITS ALL IN YOUR HEAD. ecstasy burns holes in your brain everytiome you take it. the only item on that list that is less harmful then weed is LSD. that guy needs to do better research.

41. Pascal
    February 6th, 2008 | 03:35

    I would say meth is definitely the most addictive and harmful (in terms of how quickly it becomes the center of your life and therefore how quickly every spirals down to sh.t) – I speak from personal experience. I have tried pretty much every one of the drugs listed above and I say meth was the most addictive and dangerous one. Took me a year after I quit to stop having nightmares about it… and I can speak for a lot of other ex drug buddies / addicts whom I knew who smoked crack, cannabis, etc. etc. – meth is the drug that took em down.

42. Lysergic
    February 6th, 2008 | 03:37

    MDMA does not burn holes in your head, that is a common rumor that is not true. That myth was discredited back in 2001/2002

    http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/mdma/mdma_neurotoxicity3.shtml

43. blake
    February 6th, 2008 | 03:41

    it actually is true. i usually go by what erowid says but this is false information. its not like im against people taking it as a have many times(not anymore though) its the reason why people see shadow people after they eat a lot of rolls.

44. Noah*
    February 6th, 2008 | 03:43

    X is great but it should not that low on the list, they scientist guys are great but there dumb as hell sometimes…. go ahead pop 2 pills ur first time, smoke some reefa…. then we’ll talk … good times…

45. alky al
    February 6th, 2008 | 03:44

    many comments on drugs but not one one alcohol that surly is what the documentary is about? if not it should be nuked lol I want this torrent as i personally fall in to the pattern of drinking heavily and it IS just a pattern something u do, like sparking up or breathing, except u do it more and more and drink more and more until u eather, never stop or like me stop for a short time then start again lol i think i need help

46. DuBlin
    February 6th, 2008 | 03:46

    I’d really like to see this, any direct download links or torrents found yet?

47. Mr. Mackey
    February 6th, 2008 | 03:47

    Drugs are bad, mmmkay, so don’t do drugs…cuz drugs are bad.
    mmmmmkay

48. DuBlin
    February 6th, 2008 | 04:07

    @33, SenPedro:
    Thanks for posting your experiences, my own experiences at age 19 were similar…
    I suffered from severe depression and while Prozac was my first solution(having never done drugs before) it turned out to worsen the situation causing aggression and suicidal thoughts…(read below)
    http://www.cnn.com/2005/HEALTH/01/03/prozac.documents/index.html
    I wish i had known these facts about SSRIs but i was not informed by a doctor of such potentials.

    It didn’t take long before i quit the pills and took up smoking cannabis which helped my depression immensely.
    Sadly i soon became a heavy smoke of HQ cannabis and long story short it resulted in the similar affects described by SenPedro, extreme paranoia and eventual detachment from society.

    Those days have gone and I still smoke(love) cannabis but fairly irregularly.

    I think a lot of the mental problems caused by any drug are based on the mental state of the user prior to and during heavy usage of the drug. blah

49. P K
    February 6th, 2008 | 04:07

    online player active for 6 more days for anyone who missed it

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/page/item/b008×3hq.shtml?q=horizon&start=1&scope=iplayersearch&version_pid=b008×3g9

50. jewboy666
    February 6th, 2008 | 04:10

    omg i just want rs links already lol anyone got?

51. yah right
    February 6th, 2008 | 04:11

    Yes please, some links torrent, RS ANYTHING!!! ;D

52. GhostGum
    February 6th, 2008 | 04:11

    SenPedro that was an interesting read. thanks.

    I have reached a stage in life where i realize weed is doing me no favors. I have been smoking for about 7 years. I must quit. When i smoke i am unable to communicate & i cant think properly. As i write this i am itching for a bong. Its f*cked.

    I also drink alot & the alcohol is physically causing problems too.

    My mates report that they have emotional & mental problems after taking ecstasy, personally i have had no problems with that drug however.

    My favorite type of drug is psychoactive drugs such as lsd 2c-b, etc.

53. jewboy666
    February 6th, 2008 | 04:13

    that bbc link is no good in the states

54. anonymous
    February 6th, 2008 | 04:18

    Come on people, some links already!

55. Mike
    February 6th, 2008 | 04:19

    Searched for this torrent, none of the links provided are active. Does anyone know of an active torrent link for this release?

56. Mr. Mackey
    February 6th, 2008 | 04:25

    This is up on AL, ST, and IPT.

57. yah right
    February 6th, 2008 | 04:26

    Fond a torrent: http://www.seedpeer.com/details/1077492.html

58. yah right
    February 6th, 2008 | 04:28

    Sorry people, it’s not =\! 24hours without sleep is getting to me!

59. Prez
    February 6th, 2008 | 04:31

    Links are not available. Did a search. Only a few private sites (of which the links are unavail. to the public) is this uploaded. Bleh. I really wanna see this as I’m making a documentary for my english class.

60. Atlas
    February 6th, 2008 | 04:34

    Next docu: “nukes vs bio weapons, which would you prefer having done to you?

    the discovery channel bullsh1t that has plagued the US (Top ten buildings that fall down and go boom, by size of “boom” and kill count) has crossed the pond.

61. anonymous
    February 6th, 2008 | 04:48

    I disagree, Atlas. BBC documentaries are a LOT more interesting than Discovery Channel’s crap.

62. SenPedro
    February 6th, 2008 | 04:57

    Thanks for the replies. Obviously, I am not a doctor or a scientist and I didn’t come on here to start an arguement or to make a post quite that long…

    @ Hairy crotch – I am well aware of the difference between correlation and causality. If you read my post I make that quite clear, in fact a whole paragraph is dedicated to that issue. I do agree with a few of your points though. As to your ‘professional research,’ I am not quite so convinced as beyond the textbook info you provide there is no deeper knowledge and seemingly a real lack of understanding regarding the usage of cannabis as self medication.

    On the program itself, I felt it dealt with the issue of canabis quite well. However I was pretty shocked by the ecstacy section. I know many people with big probs because of the drug, people who have had to replace ecstacy with strong antidepressants due to serotonin deficiencies, even some who are beyond help, they were all Heavy users though.

63. asdf
    February 6th, 2008 | 05:00

    There will always be people who simply can’t use Cannabis without it causing problems. While not the most harmful drug out there, it still can be harmful.

64. nak
    February 6th, 2008 | 05:02

    Drugs aren’t bad, people are. If they are going to be f-ups they will one way or another with or without drugs.

    I do drugs and am fine with work, school, relationships, and other responsibilities.

65. Alex
    February 6th, 2008 | 05:12

    @

66. Alex
    February 6th, 2008 | 05:13

    UPS

    @62

    NOT AGREE WITH YOU

67. n00b
    February 6th, 2008 | 05:15

    @all you dont do drugs so stop reading erowid

68. Kim
    February 6th, 2008 | 05:30

    @62+67

    BBC documentaries are better, Discovery documentaries are a bit boring and I find myself losing interest.

69. Kim
    February 6th, 2008 | 05:36

    @68

    How do you know they don’t do drugs, the internet is the only place where you can say you have done drugs and not get judged by friends or family, thats why so many people are comfortable admitting it on here.
    I, personally, have only smoked weed and, to be honest, it is the crappest drug ever, the pills I have for my migraines get me higher than that.

70. rookie
    February 6th, 2008 | 06:12

    @70

    that’s because you smoked garbage weed. i’ve been smoking weed for 10 years and I still get high as hell when i smoked some good bud.

71. amonamarth1
    February 6th, 2008 | 06:31

    @ last 2 posts, it is b/c u smoke garbage weed. i got bc bud nest in world so cant comlain with that. weed only 4 me, never done/tried anything else, and i never drink so how would some of you describe that

72. The Last Explorer
    February 6th, 2008 | 07:18

    anyone with that link?

73. zer0drew
    February 6th, 2008 | 07:34

    Of course alcohol is worse than ecstasy, isn’t it obviously apparent that alcoholism is a genetic disease?, i’ve never heard of ecstasyism. Anyways @ Senpedro & Harry K, Rotch, I researched into this, and I found out that THC is a anti-cholingeric drug which in effect makes people with schizophrenia (etc) who smoke it, have more positive symptoms, less depression, withdrawal, etc. Over time the THC will wear down dopamine in your brain and make schizophrenia (etc) people more susceptible to hallucinations.

    Ever been tripping, and smoke weed, then it makes you trip that much harder ? Except imagine that with what someone with a severe mental illness is already going through.

74. BabylonSoul
    February 6th, 2008 | 07:41

    Sen Pedro,

    thank you so much for sharing your story with us.

75. Netranger
    February 6th, 2008 | 08:07

    Rapidshare?

76. BaHa
    February 6th, 2008 | 08:11

    I’m around 37 years old and have never been offered any drugs, nor actually seen any of that stuff in my life. Dunno if I’ve my blinders on all the time, or maybe it’s just the benefit of living in the outbacks wast part of my life.

77. Kiwi
    February 6th, 2008 | 08:56

    So you have never drunken booze or had a ciggy ??

78. BaHa
    February 6th, 2008 | 09:33

    Should have been more specific.. Sure done my fair share of booze and snus (moist snuff?), but thats about it..

79. EoN
    February 6th, 2008 | 09:36

    This episode of Horizon just popped on Mvgroup. It isn’t the Remax release but the same show encoded by someone else of that side.
    Torrent only. For the site you need to sign up but their tracker is a public one.
    Direct link : http://forums.mvgroup.org/torrents/BBC.Horizon.2008.Is.Alcohol.Worse.than.Ecstasy.DVBC.XviD.MP3.MVGroup.org.avi.torrent

    Info :

    Filesize…..: 669,769,442 bytes
    Runtime……: 49:21.000 (74025 frames)

    Video Codec..: XviD ISO MPEG-4 (B-VOP//)
    Video Bitrate: 1672 kbps
    Aspect Ratio.: 672×384 (1.750)
    Framerate….: 25.000 fps
    Bitstream….: Unpacked

    Audio Codec..: 0×0055 MPEG-1 Layer 3
    Audio Bitrate: 129kbps 2ch VBR 48000Hz

    Subs :
    http://rapidshare.com/files/89563084/BBC.Horizon.2008.Is.Alcohol.Worse.than.Ecstasy.DVBC.XviD.MP3.MVGroup.org.en.rar.html

    Enjoy

80. EoN
    February 6th, 2008 | 09:37

    Side=Site
    Small typo

81. zer0drew
    February 6th, 2008 | 09:37

    I like this, how alcohol its something else

82. Ksawery
    February 6th, 2008 | 09:52

    rs links pls!

83. G
    February 6th, 2008 | 10:53

    http links anyone?

    thx

84. docs
    February 6th, 2008 | 10:53

    @62
    Yes the BBC ones do not assume your some idiot who needs to be told things ten times to get through, so they are a lot better than Discovery but sometimes theres been excellent German and French documentaries on the TV (too bad french tv5 has no english subtitles) that are better than BBC which is something a bit boring.

    As for the list I find it strange LSD is not at the top as there people who verify the stories about it. (Never tried any illegal ones myself though so dont really know about them.)
    Also tobacco should be higher on the list, as it kills more people than alcohol despite being used by far less.

85. docs
    February 6th, 2008 | 10:57

    Methadone #4
    So maybe they should stop giving it for free to anyone who claims to have a drug-problem…

86. miles
    February 6th, 2008 | 11:44

    hmm, methadone #4, heroine #1, some progress i guess

87. ethanol apocalypse
    February 6th, 2008 | 11:45

    Interesting read, SenPedro.

    Consumption of cannabis can precipitate a psychotic disorder in some individuals. Though it is impossible to find out BEFORE THE FACT who these individuals are that have this vulnerability / predisposition to psychosis triggered by cannabis consumption.

    You write that we “have the luxury of choice” since we now know about this possible effect of cannabis. Are you sure this knowledge would have influenced your behaviour, if you had known before?

    *Maybe* it would have. I myself had tactile hallucinations once when once, in Guatemala, I was doing a lot of cocaine. It felt like bugs on my skin. But luckily I knew from med school that this is a common symptom of heavy use of this drug (when delusionally misinterpreted as real it has its own term – dermatozoic delusion). So I could stay at ease – aside from notifying how excessive my use of the drug had become. So yes, knowledge is essential.

    But still in my experience the majority of people don’t listen and continue to do and believe what they want to do and believe. I know a couple of guys that smoke cannabis in excessive amounts (a few grams per day, everyday), but they just don’t care.

    They have serious personal problems and are very unhappy with their lives. They use drugs to block out reality, to not feel their sadness or frustration or anger. In addition to cannabis they use increasing amounts of alcohol, and only recently they added speed ((meth-)amphetamine). I see them on a downward spiral.

    Btw. SenPedro: I appreciate that your bad experience with cannabis has not made you become an apostle of prohibitionism.

    What I actually wanted to write:

    While pretty much everybody knows that alcohol causes malformation of the embryo (teratogenic), is liver toxic, kills brain cells and is cytotoxic in general, these two facts about alcohol are almost unknown to the public:

    1) Ethanol (alcohol) is a proven carcinogenic. Alcohol substantially increases your risk to get cancer at an early age. Especially cancer of the stomach, the oesophagus, and the mouth. The effect is dosage-dependant (it does not seem to differ whether you drink beer, wine, or liqour, it only depends on the absolute amount of alcohol that you consume).

    2) Ethanol damages the heart muscle (toxic kardiomyopathy).

    My stance on drug laws: Pretty much every drug should be legally available to adults. For highly addictive drugs (e.g. tobacco, alcohol, cocaine, heroine) access should be controlled / regulated. But there should be no need to turn to criminals that make huge profits in selling the drugs and whose prime concern is to get as many people on drugs as possible. No one should make obscene amounts of money from recreational drug users, much less from addicted users.

88. fhfghdfgh
    February 6th, 2008 | 12:12

    Some people are just nuts. Sad but true.

    Weed doesn’t create psychological problems. It can exacerbate existing conditions, but it can’t create new ones. It’s just a shame that nobody tried to help any of the above people before they turned to self-prescribing illicit drugs as medication.

89. docs
    February 6th, 2008 | 12:19

    @87
    “hmm, methadone #4, heroine #1, some progress i guess”

    That is only assuming those who go get their free methadone used heroine. That is not always the case.

90. schwager
    February 6th, 2008 | 12:22

    @86 docs:

    “Methadone #4
    So maybe they should stop giving it for free to anyone who claims to have a drug-problem”

    Methadone is prescribed ONLY to people that are already physically addicted to an opiate drug (e.g. heroine).

    Or would you prefer that addict selling her/his body (and contracting/spreading hepatitis B,C or AIDS), breaking into your car/home, and making some armed crime syndicate even more rich and powerful? I didn’t think so.

    @85 docs:

    “As for the list I find it strange LSD is not at the top as there people who verify the stories about it. (Never tried any illegal ones myself though so dont really know about them.)”

    Luckily you admit not knowing about any illegal drug. First and foremost: Every drug has its dangers. As for LSD: Yes, it can precipitate psychosis. Possibly similar as cannabis.

    But as with cannabis, the risk of psychosis is minuscule. Literally dozens of millions of doses of LSD have been taken especially in the 60’s and 70’s. Maybe you physician or one or the other of your teachers has. Many academics that today are regular people, doing their jobs, have.

    As for the list: A one-dimensional scale (the list) is a very bad device to represent something as complex as a drugs potential to cause harm in a human being. The drugs on the list are very different. Some are physiologically addictive, some are not. Some are physiologically damaging, some are not. Such a list is practically worthless on itself. You’d have to know why they did the list this way. But as I understand the list did not come on itself, but as part of an article/a tv documentary.

91. fart
    February 6th, 2008 | 12:23

    @ blake lol you’re the one who should search a bit…

    ecstasy burns your neurons, but so does lsd… and all the drugs around.

    lsd can leads to huge personality changes. it can also triggers temporary psychosis in healthy people. and this does not happen while you’re high but the following days. it can also leads people with a family history of psychiatric trouble(schizophrenia) to a full time hospitalization.
    it’s also well known as an inhibitor for low/mild psychological troubles(anxiety, depression and more).

    E also leads to depression, anxiety and anorexia but you have to take it on a long period of time, like every day for a week or two, to see those sides effects when lsd can do that in only one shoot and not a big one too.

    people who say lsd is all in the head and it does nothing should stop taking the drug and look up around a bit, if they still have a few neurons left.. and had/have an IQ to use them.

92. Paradox8
    February 6th, 2008 | 12:50

    ha…i’ve done every drug in that list except for ’solvents’ and khat…I’m still sane, hold a job and live a perfectly normal life now days…i admit at one stage (about a two year period) i was having way to much pot, speed, trip-stasy, xtc and ketamine but i got through it eventually…life is about experiences…you got to do everything once!

93. zer0drew
    February 6th, 2008 | 13:13

    “Also tobacco should be higher on the list, as it kills more people than alcohol despite being used by far less.”

    What are you living under a cave? less people use alcohol than tobacoo?

    LOL! and it “kills” more people, Those are just people who died and smoked, which is like 1/3 of the country here.
    So, that means nothing.

    Get a grip man, and not on the bottle.

94. zer0drew
    February 6th, 2008 | 13:21

    While I don’t think that’s a wise course of action, it is comprehensible and in their position I may well do the same.

    Yes not everyone has the attitude that they will do whatever it takes to get better.

    Thats why those are the schizophrenic people that are in involuntary locked up.

    Most of the time Schizophrenic/bipolar/etc, don’t have any need to be hospitalized. Except for if weed,alchol, has made it that much worse.

95. TempPD
    February 6th, 2008 | 15:15

    Hey guys,

    This (REMAX) release is available on Bitnation (http://tracker.bitnation.com/announce). It is a private tracker and as far as I’m aware sign-ups are closed but if you have an account there you can get it.

96. maako
    February 6th, 2008 | 15:22

    I trust anything from the good people of BBC!
    Thanx for the hookup EoN!

97. G
    February 6th, 2008 | 15:36

    http links? bbc is not working if you are outside UK

    thx

98. TempPD
    February 6th, 2008 | 15:40

    @ 98 staapaavandski

    Hi,

    Thanks for the links but that is not the REMAX release, or is it? Whichever, I appreciate the effort!

99. SanPedro
    February 6th, 2008 | 15:55

    @88 If I had known about the risks I would probably have smoked dope anyway but during the onset of symptoms I may have been able to get some help. When my first symptoms appeared (wild mood swings) I visited a doctor and explicitly explained how much cannabis I was using, I was told “If it helps you to relax then don’t worry about it”. A similar message I recieved from many doctors (GP’s) before I was really far gone.

    After numerous arrests I was reffered to a drugs counsellor (some fat thirty year old middle class woman) who took out a pen and paper, wrote down a calculation of how much cannabis was costing me per year and asked me “Do you really want to spend that much?”, “err, yeah…”.

    After diagnosis, after speaking to health care providers who deal with these issues daily and after my own reading I felt angry that I was not provided with a balanced view of the drug.

100. MeNotYou
     February 6th, 2008 | 16:57

     Everything starts with an E…….

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